This is an interesting frame, and spot about the value of mindfulness and daily practice to see these more clearly. I would also consider the aspect of the neither-painful-nor-pleasant feelings, which per the Buddha are associated with the abiding of the fourth jhāna and which one cannot experience and thus have an opportunity to gain wisdom about until the mind keeps cycling through pain resistance and pleasure seeking behavior

You’re welcome! 🙂

You’re welcome. An irrational application of mind implies, scattered thoughts, a fault-finding nature, or a mind that works on assumptions/beliefs. There is another teaching where the Buddha shares the causes that lead to an irrational application of mind as well as antidotes to it: 30 mental qualities that lead to enlightenment, to the arising of the Buddha (AN 10.76).

It is good that you’re reflecting on the teachings to independently verify them. 🙂

You’re welcome, glad to hear it was of help 😀

In my view of the Buddha’s teachings, he typically suggests different options based on a person’s inclination. This particular one might be a teaching for people who were interested in enjoying sensual pleasures and not inclined to a meditation practice.

Elsewhere, the Buddha shares 10 reasons to not believe a teaching, such as believing based on a teacher’s authority, your family or state’s beliefs, even by logic or reasoning: https://www.reddit.com/r/WordsOfTheBuddha/comments/18adf05/kalama_sutta_importance_of_inquiry_and_personal/. If when you apply a teaching and see benefits to the condition of your mind and in your personal and professional relationships, then you may consider following it. You may consider combining your skepticism with your independent observation instead of blindly believing or disbelieving it.

I see… thanks for this feedback

wow, good job! The teachings have a lot of repetition to distinguish a subtle detail as they were orally transmitted for a few hundred years until being written down.

I read it as a warning on choosing who to associate with and who to avoid. Here’s another teaching that frames it in positive: https://lemmy.world/post/10788878. The Buddha often taught in both ways to ensure his teachings were well-understood.

There is an openness to interpretation of this being judgemental with the very vivid simile, but when you see the Buddha’s teachings as a whole, the interpretation that applies here is one of cultivating discernment on who to associate with. There is a subtle but important distinction between the two: discernment is you cultivating wisdom about the world, of the good and the bad without creating ill-will or judging others. You can see this being true when you also read: https://suttacentral.net/mn21/en/sujato, where he recommends maintaining a mind of love even if somebody were to sever you limb by limb with a saw. The Buddha uses these very vivid similes to convey how to apply the teachings.

On the association aspect, it’s a very crucial aspect as it is the single external force that enables one to either cultivate and grow in spiritualities or leads to decline in their qualities. And this isn’t as well understood.

They would be in the third category: If a person is exhibiting good ethics, they are worth accompanying and attending. As just by association with them, one gets a good reputation.

There is another teaching where the Buddha shares about a person who has higher ethics, immersion (concentration) and wisdom, one should associate and attend to such a person with honor, as this association will lead one to cultivate the same qualities.

You’re welcome, and thank you for choosing to learn the Buddha’s teachings 🙂

Thanks, these are not bad

It’s for each of us to hold our views. Not here to change yours, however, if you’re curious, I suggest you see this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIEWAerJKOs.

The research on cessations of consciousness is from April 2023, and the experiment is done under the bright bright lights of a modern skeptical science lab.