Never said I was a tankie bruh. A party that bases itself on a slightly more gentle fascism isn’t the cart we should be attaching ourselves to.
It will never ever be the right election for y’all liberal centrists who shit post on left folks. It is always the next one. Point is, if we want to be rid of this fucking fascist shit, we have to build solidarity with the left.
Not interested in the whole yelling at each other thing, so genuinely asking here. What exactly does not voting democrat get the left in the US? Is the OP’s assumption that you want to accelerate fascism actually correct?
So far I haven’t seen any reason other than either accelerationism or “because it makes me feel bad” and I refuse to believe that’s all that’s behind it.
I’m really having a hard time, and I genuinely think it’s important to try to understand the points of view and beliefs of those we disagree with, rather than immediately turning to infighting.
Political parties exist in the free market just like corporations. If they can’t earn votes a new party will form. It’s happened before and it will happen again. That’s why they message with fear. It’s effective at turning off any critical thinking.
Shifts the policies of the Democratic party so that they appeal to leftists. Not going to get into an ongoing debate, but just so you can’t say you haven’t seen any other reasons (which sounds fake to me but okay).
I appreciate it. I’m not here to debate you and I have no reason to lie about not having seen anything else, though I’m honestly a bit hurt that you think that, but I guess you’ve been nothing but attacked so far so perhaps it’s understandable.
I don’t think my sarcastic responses prove anything. They’re just sarcastic responses to some truly exceptional assertions as to the meaning of bullying.
Hey, remember when the Dems ran an unlikable centrist candidate as the lesser of two evils because anyone else wasn’t “electable” enough in the DNC’s view of centrist voters, and that translated into an electoral win via pinched noses in 2016? I’m really glad we got a dynastic compromise candidate that saved Democracy. That strategy worked out so well for Hillary, I can see why they’d go for it again.
Barely anyone protest voted lol. She got more votes from Bernie voters than Trump got from Gary Johnson voters. She lost because she didn’t appeal to specific voters in specific states, and the US has a shit democracy that she didn’t correctly strategize for.
It was the highest 3rd party vote in, what, 20 years?
She got more votes from Bernie voters than Trump got from Gary Johnson voters. She lost because she didn’t appeal to specific voters in specific states, and the US has a shit democracy that she didn’t correctly strategize for.
Those things are also correct.
My point is not “HILLARY COULD HAVE WON” it was “Pretty clearly, despite widespread discontent on the left and the resulting action of witholding votes to either not vote, write-in, or give to the Green/Libertarian Parties, the DNC did not take losing to a right-wing candidate as proof that they needed to move left in any appreciable way”.
I can’t tell if you’re mocking me, I don’t know how much clearer I can be that I just want to know why, if I can’t understand why people think it’s a good idea then I can’t be sure that my views/opinions are actually worth anything.
If you just don’t want to talk to me then, that’s okay too.
I was agreeing with not shitting on the left and the need for an attempt to understand them. Not a lot of good faith attempts at understanding happening here, just a lot of bullying.
What is ideal about 40 years of two-party neoliberal movement to the right bringing us to the brink of fascism?
What is privileged about not having healthcare security, job security, in endless war, the environment going to pot, rent exploding, deregulation, ballooning prison numbers, speculative housing markets? Honestly it feels like the privileged who cannot imagine anything different than the bipartisan system that pits us (those on the left and liberals) against each other.
Oh? Where’s the genocide? Point it out. You guys started this talking point a month ago and nobody has given even an attempt at rationalizing this talking point. You just sound like the guy on the street with a cardboard sign ranting at god. And even better there’s a real one going on right now that Biden is supporting. This wouldn’t be you trying your hand at some Good Old Projection would it?
Thank you for confirming that you don’t believe Trump is genocidal. I’ll remember this for future reference. It’s a very common fascist talking point, that their strongman of choice isn’t REALLY genocidal.
It’s okay, when we’re dragged off to the camps for being Democrats, minorities, and ‘useless eaters’, the tankies will assure us that Biden would have done the same, in 6-10 decades.
Don’t worry, online brigading is definitely good praxis though, unlike so-called ‘harm reduction’ which only extends the period in which minorities can fight for a better future. Don’t they know that that’s useless, and what they REALLY should be doing is dying to inspire the privileged to finally Rise Up™ on their (belated) behalf?
You think leftists online are accelerationists because they criticize democrats, but you don’t think democrats are accelerationists for outright funding fascists?! Are you being serious?
Yeah, I was also there in 2016 and I remember people like you claiming that hillary was the best shot we had against trump and that it’s smart that hillary’s team boosted trump because he’d be so easy to win against. The result of the 2016 election should’ve shut people like you up forever, but instead you all pretend like you’re the smartest people on earth.
Didn’t realize that I wasn’t allowed to point out tankie behavior like “Faster fascism Good, Actually” unless the poster self-identified, thank you for the information.
Never said I was a tankie bruh. A party that bases itself on a slightly more gentle fascism isn’t the cart we should be attaching ourselves to.
It will never ever be the right election for y’all liberal centrists who shit post on left folks. It is always the next one. Point is, if we want to be rid of this fucking fascist shit, we have to build solidarity with the left.
Not interested in the whole yelling at each other thing, so genuinely asking here. What exactly does not voting democrat get the left in the US? Is the OP’s assumption that you want to accelerate fascism actually correct?
So far I haven’t seen any reason other than either accelerationism or “because it makes me feel bad” and I refuse to believe that’s all that’s behind it.
I’m really having a hard time, and I genuinely think it’s important to try to understand the points of view and beliefs of those we disagree with, rather than immediately turning to infighting.
Political parties exist in the free market just like corporations. If they can’t earn votes a new party will form. It’s happened before and it will happen again. That’s why they message with fear. It’s effective at turning off any critical thinking.
Tell me more about the political free market under Project 2025.
In fact, tell me more about how quickly firms rise and fall in the free market. It’s instantaneous, right?
Sometimes it is. Sometimes you have to push it off the cliff.
lmao
Shifts the policies of the Democratic party so that they appeal to leftists. Not going to get into an ongoing debate, but just so you can’t say you haven’t seen any other reasons (which sounds fake to me but okay).
I appreciate it. I’m not here to debate you and I have no reason to lie about not having seen anything else, though I’m honestly a bit hurt that you think that, but I guess you’ve been nothing but attacked so far so perhaps it’s understandable.
Thanks for understanding. 🏳️⚧️💖
Yeah, it is dogpiling and bullying in here. The reasons are here in the comments and elsewhere.
Bullying is when people say something I don’t like, and the more I don’t like it, the more bullying it is.
This is bullying lol, very disingenuous to the actual situation. Come on.
Oh good, you’ve asserted that saying something you don’t like is bullying. That truly confirms it, then.
Do you think that sarcastic responses are proving your assertion that there isn’t any bullying going on?
I don’t think my sarcastic responses prove anything. They’re just sarcastic responses to some truly exceptional assertions as to the meaning of bullying.
Could you give exactly one example of that ever happening?
Hey, remember when we all protest voted in 2016 and drove the Dem party SO far left?
Hey, remember when the Dems ran an unlikable centrist candidate as the lesser of two evils because anyone else wasn’t “electable” enough in the DNC’s view of centrist voters, and that translated into an electoral win via pinched noses in 2016? I’m really glad we got a dynastic compromise candidate that saved Democracy. That strategy worked out so well for Hillary, I can see why they’d go for it again.
Barely anyone protest voted lol. She got more votes from Bernie voters than Trump got from Gary Johnson voters. She lost because she didn’t appeal to specific voters in specific states, and the US has a shit democracy that she didn’t correctly strategize for.
It was the highest 3rd party vote in, what, 20 years?
Those things are also correct.
My point is not “HILLARY COULD HAVE WON” it was “Pretty clearly, despite widespread discontent on the left and the resulting action of witholding votes to either not vote, write-in, or give to the Green/Libertarian Parties, the DNC did not take losing to a right-wing candidate as proof that they needed to move left in any appreciable way”.
I wholeheartedly agree.
I can’t tell if you’re mocking me, I don’t know how much clearer I can be that I just want to know why, if I can’t understand why people think it’s a good idea then I can’t be sure that my views/opinions are actually worth anything.
If you just don’t want to talk to me then, that’s okay too.
People like this exist to argue. They have no ideology and no beliefs.
I think they were saying they agree with the idea that people should understand the political beliefs of those they disagree with.
I was not mocking you.
Then answer the questions…
Read the other posts in the thread, then. The answers are already there.
Obtuse.
Riveting point.
Is this a bot? This reply doesn’t make any sense.
What are you agreeing with? They asked you for more information.
I was agreeing with not shitting on the left and the need for an attempt to understand them. Not a lot of good faith attempts at understanding happening here, just a lot of bullying.
Idealism is fun, but it’s so very extremely privileged.
What is ideal about 40 years of two-party neoliberal movement to the right bringing us to the brink of fascism?
What is privileged about not having healthcare security, job security, in endless war, the environment going to pot, rent exploding, deregulation, ballooning prison numbers, speculative housing markets? Honestly it feels like the privileged who cannot imagine anything different than the bipartisan system that pits us (those on the left and liberals) against each other.
Jesus. At least work on your reading comprehension before responding.
Idealism is great when you use it to fight for a better world.
Idealism is privileged when you use it to deny any reduction in harm as not being ‘good enough’ to permit.
He just calls anyone to the left of him a tankie. He has no clue what it actually means.
Sorry that I think fascists painted red calling for genocide in America are bad.
Oh? Where’s the genocide? Point it out. You guys started this talking point a month ago and nobody has given even an attempt at rationalizing this talking point. You just sound like the guy on the street with a cardboard sign ranting at god. And even better there’s a real one going on right now that Biden is supporting. This wouldn’t be you trying your hand at some Good Old Projection would it?
Oh, let me get this straight, you’re denying that Trump is genocidal now?
Please, I want this on record.
Show me then. I’m not going to make spurious accusations.
Thank you for confirming that you don’t believe Trump is genocidal. I’ll remember this for future reference. It’s a very common fascist talking point, that their strongman of choice isn’t REALLY genocidal.
Go ahead. Don’t be surprised if someone shows me actual evidence and I change my position. It’s how rational people operate.
Wow, so enlightened.
It’s okay, when we’re dragged off to the camps for being Democrats, minorities, and ‘useless eaters’, the tankies will assure us that Biden would have done the same, in 6-10 decades.
Oh, of course. Remember, it’s evil to vote for democrats so the best thing to do is not vote at all! /s. Tankie logic.
Don’t worry, online brigading is definitely good praxis though, unlike so-called ‘harm reduction’ which only extends the period in which minorities can fight for a better future. Don’t they know that that’s useless, and what they REALLY should be doing is dying to inspire the privileged to finally Rise Up™ on their (belated) behalf?
Conflating anyone on the left with being tankies is exactly the problem.
If you don’t like being called a tankie, then don’t push tankie talking points, champ.
Go and read some, the left is a spectrum. Fuck tankies.
Oh, okay, so accelerationism and anti-democratic sentiment is just normal leftism nowadays? We’re all MLs and MLMs? Cool cool cool.
So is this accelerationism or does it not count when democrats do it?:
https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/03/the-democrats-are-purposely-boosting-far-right-republicans-this-will-backfire
https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2022/07/democrats-spend-millions-on-republican-primaries
biden pushing billions of dollars towards israel against the wishes of people who vote for him is pro-democratic?:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx
How about their rigged primaries keeping progressives out? Is that pro-democratic?:
https://observer.com/2017/08/court-admits-dnc-and-debbie-wasserman-schulz-rigged-primaries-against-sanders/
I suppose it’s pro-democratic party, but the party’s name is ironic.
Is that what you think accelerationism is? A party trying to run against the enemy it thinks is electorally weakest?
Fucking lmao.
Hilarious. Come back when you actually know anything about how 2016 went down. Some of us were fucking there.
You think leftists online are accelerationists because they criticize democrats, but you don’t think democrats are accelerationists for outright funding fascists?! Are you being serious?
Yeah, I was also there in 2016 and I remember people like you claiming that hillary was the best shot we had against trump and that it’s smart that hillary’s team boosted trump because he’d be so easy to win against. The result of the 2016 election should’ve shut people like you up forever, but instead you all pretend like you’re the smartest people on earth.
That’s funny, considering I was an ardent Bernie voter who ended up protest voting in the General.
Swing and a miss. It’s almost impressive that you’re wrong so consistently.
lmao. Whatever strawman helps you get your dander up, buddy.
You mean the one did their level best to make sure Clinton won? The one where they gave her all the info ahead of time?
Didn’t realize that I wasn’t allowed to point out tankie behavior like “Faster fascism Good, Actually” unless the poster self-identified, thank you for the information.
Thank you for your inability to listen to reason.
“Reason” here being “Make fascism happen faster”
Forgive me for not finding that a terribly compelling argument.