What is the point when liberals accept genocide. My dude at least if Trump was doing it more people would be mobilizing against it. What is honestly better in this situation?
Yeah but, option a) someone who supports genocide but wants to make your life more difficult or option b) someone who supports genocide but what’s to try and make your life better?
Yeah but, option a) someone who supports genocide but wants to make your life more difficult or option b) someone who supports genocide but what’s to try and make your life better?
“Why are people struggling with this choice?!”
edit to change the strikeout to bold to make it look less like i was being reductive
If they both believe the same thing on one topic, then you can cancel that topic out and only look at the other policies…it’s really not that difficult of a concept to get. Obviously, no genocide would be great, but if that literally isn’t an option, then just vote for the one that isn’t also actively trying to screw you’re over personally.
Look I’m not American so I don’t really have a horse in this race. But it seems to me, unless you have a revolution and burn the entire system to the ground and build it back up, it makes 0 sense to “boycott” the democrats because then you will just end up with right wing genocide instead of centerist genocide. (If you can even say democrats are Center, where I’m from they are still right wing!)
Of course not. But allowing their political rival (who also supports the thing you want to protest against) to win because you get apathetic and don’t vote is the most idiotic thing I’ve ever heard of.
Dems like to point that this is the most important election ever. We can’t even vote our way out of a genocide and you’re questioning the apathy toward voter engagement. I’m looking around and seeing a vastly different political landscape than you and wondering what you are looking at.
I’m not advocating people decide not to vote, i’m defending the apathy most voters feel because democrats have given them ample reason to feel apathetic.
If banging the drum of genocidal complicity is me acting against my selfish desire to end the genocide, then I think banging the drum of ‘vote for biden or else’ is also acting against our collective desire to end the genocide.
In my opinion, we should all be banging the same ‘stop the genocide’ drum so that in November everyone can feel better about voting instead of having to do genocide math to figure out what to do.
If they both believe the same thing on one topic, then you can cancel that topic out and only look at the other policies
This isn’t a math equation, it’s a negotiation between human beings. You’re saying that opposition to genocide is off the table because neither politician is offering it. But what happens if a sufficiently high number of voters say that genocide is off the table? In the short term, yes, it may mean a worse candidate wins. But if your goal is to stop genocide then it’s necessary to create that impasse and maintain it until the other side caves. The fact is that we have something they apparently want, and there’s no reason to hand over our votes if they open with the complete non-starter of supporting genocide.
You can either try to nudge it towards the better asshole or you can whine about it or whatever
for a second I thought you had it, but then you landed on the wrong note.
I was looking for ‘you can try to nudge them toward the better policy’, but people here are either so black pilled that they don’t see a point in trying or they believe that democrats doing the right thing (even just not doing the evil thing) will certainly cost them an election. I think the latter perspective is the most black-pilling opinion i’ve ever seen, and possibly the best argument i’ve ever seen against liberal democracies at all.
I appreciate the acknowledgement, but i’m of the opinion that politicians don’t respond to cold calls and emails, but do respond to relentless bad press.
But so long as I can do both at the same time, i will continue doing so.
A thought just occurred to me that I could send the memes directly to their offices…
You’re talking too much sense for most ML to tolerate. And far too many elsewhere as well.
We have to work within the systems that exist. Not the systems we wished existed. And if that wasn’t bad enough, so many refuse to engage with the system at all. Seeking only to accelerate it’s destruction regardless of those that will be killed. All the while pretending to be pious and claiming they wish to stop the killing.
There are no easy choices in life. I’m no Democrat. But I know everyone’s lives will effectively be worse with Republicans in control.
The mere fact that Netanyahu wants Trump back in office should really give you a hint as to what’s the worst option here. Also the idea that people would mobilize more if Trump was offices simply silly. If tens of thousands of dead women and children don’t mobilize you nothing’s going to mobilize you.
I can’t beg my children to eat healthier while continually buying them chips amd candy.
Politicians lie, yes? It is universally agreed upon that Politicians lie as far as I am aware. So why is it that libs can’t get it through their thick skulls that when Biden says he wants a ceasefire but month after month sends BILLIONS OF DOLLARS in weapons contracts, that he is completely full of shit when he says he wants a ceasefire?
Congress approved sending the weapons. It’s literally illegal for Biden not to send them. They wouldn’t even allow him not to send one type of bomb that would be especially catastrophic to civilians.
Congress passed the Leahy law, which prevents weapons shipments to regimes that violate human rights.
The only thing the Biden state dept has to do is acknowledge Israel’s war crimes in a formal report. But they have been bending over backwards to delay and water down the report.
Biden could legally stop these genocidal resupplies today if he wanted to .
It’s way more complicated than Biden just saying so. It takes intensive investigation and can only be used for very specific reasons: torture, extrajudicial killing, enforced disappearance, and rape under color of law.
Yes that intensive investigation has occurred, the report was released on May 10. It stopped just short of admitting gross violations of human rights in Gaza.
This political document, submitted by the Biden administration’s state department, laughably suggests that there is no evidence of intentional wrongdoing, nor did Israel arbitrarily obstruct humanitarian aid into Gaza.
I think the only way you can read this report and find it credible is if you are already filled with Zionist propaganda.
I listed the four reasons above by which arms can be withheld. Violations of human rights and obstructing aid are not on that list, like it or not. I find it highly more likely that if there was any wrongdoing, it was Israel concealing the truth from US investigators, not bad faith of the US government. Biden was literally one of the drafters of United Nations Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. I don’t see him standing by and letting that happen if he can help it.
Not that I am aware. The only one that might have happened is torture but that depends on whether the legal definition includes thing like waterboarding, sleep deprivation, or other things we like to call “enhanced interrogation”.
And yet he has come out strongly against the student protests with classic talking points like “law and order”. Stop making excuses for the bag of bones and own up to his positions if your going to support him.
I own up to his real position. I won’t own up to fake positions he never held. He sent offensive weapons to Israel after it was apparent this has gone far beyond simple defense from terrorists. If I had my choice I would have only sent humanitarian aid and defensive weapons like resupplies for the iron dome. I also suppose acknowledging Palestine while at the same time recognizing that Hamas is a dangerous group which leads the country and needs to be overthrown. The only way Israel will ever get Hamas out of Palestine is by supporting the Palestinian people who want to fight for control of their own country.
The far right in Israel has a lot to answer for. There is no doubt that the actions of Israel in Palestine created Hamas. I think it’s too far of a jump to say this is intentionally creating a justification for genocide. It’s also important to acknowledge that the government in both countries doesn’t represent all of their people. There are genocidal assholes on both sides as well as those who want to coexist. I would prefer that Israel didn’t exist at all because any religious or ethnically exclusive country is troubling to me, but the Nazis didn’t leave us much choice.
Of course, according to you, the voters only know what the STATE tells them to think, so I entirely understand your position that the voters’ support of genocide actually does not in any way reflect the voters’ support of genocide.
Still the lesser of 2 evils no? Not like trump’s moral compass is particularly good either…
What is the point when liberals accept genocide. My dude at least if Trump was doing it more people would be mobilizing against it. What is honestly better in this situation?
Yeah but, option a) someone who supports genocide but wants to make your life more difficult or option b) someone who supports genocide but what’s to try and make your life better?
Biden treats making peoples lives better like a miser spends on charity to boost sales.
“Why are people struggling with this choice?!”
edit to change the strikeout to bold to make it look less like i was being reductive
If they both believe the same thing on one topic, then you can cancel that topic out and only look at the other policies…it’s really not that difficult of a concept to get. Obviously, no genocide would be great, but if that literally isn’t an option, then just vote for the one that isn’t also actively trying to screw you’re over personally.
Look I’m not American so I don’t really have a horse in this race. But it seems to me, unless you have a revolution and burn the entire system to the ground and build it back up, it makes 0 sense to “boycott” the democrats because then you will just end up with right wing genocide instead of centerist genocide. (If you can even say democrats are Center, where I’m from they are still right wing!)
Does it make 0 sense to protest against the genocide to pressure them to stop?
Of course not. But allowing their political rival (who also supports the thing you want to protest against) to win because you get apathetic and don’t vote is the most idiotic thing I’ve ever heard of.
Dems like to point that this is the most important election ever. We can’t even vote our way out of a genocide and you’re questioning the apathy toward voter engagement. I’m looking around and seeing a vastly different political landscape than you and wondering what you are looking at.
They have a two party system, if both of those parties support genocide then what other options are there except a revolution?
I’m not advocating people decide not to vote, i’m defending the apathy most voters feel because democrats have given them ample reason to feel apathetic.
If banging the drum of genocidal complicity is me acting against my selfish desire to end the genocide, then I think banging the drum of ‘vote for biden or else’ is also acting against our collective desire to end the genocide.
In my opinion, we should all be banging the same ‘stop the genocide’ drum so that in November everyone can feel better about voting instead of having to do genocide math to figure out what to do.
This isn’t a math equation, it’s a negotiation between human beings. You’re saying that opposition to genocide is off the table because neither politician is offering it. But what happens if a sufficiently high number of voters say that genocide is off the table? In the short term, yes, it may mean a worse candidate wins. But if your goal is to stop genocide then it’s necessary to create that impasse and maintain it until the other side caves. The fact is that we have something they apparently want, and there’s no reason to hand over our votes if they open with the complete non-starter of supporting genocide.
deleted by creator
for a second I thought you had it, but then you landed on the wrong note.
I was looking for ‘you can try to nudge them toward the better policy’, but people here are either so black pilled that they don’t see a point in trying or they believe that democrats doing the right thing (even just not doing the evil thing) will certainly cost them an election. I think the latter perspective is the most black-pilling opinion i’ve ever seen, and possibly the best argument i’ve ever seen against liberal democracies at all.
deleted by creator
I appreciate the acknowledgement, but i’m of the opinion that politicians don’t respond to cold calls and emails, but do respond to relentless bad press.
But so long as I can do both at the same time, i will continue doing so.
A thought just occurred to me that I could send the memes directly to their offices…
You’re talking too much sense for most ML to tolerate. And far too many elsewhere as well.
We have to work within the systems that exist. Not the systems we wished existed. And if that wasn’t bad enough, so many refuse to engage with the system at all. Seeking only to accelerate it’s destruction regardless of those that will be killed. All the while pretending to be pious and claiming they wish to stop the killing.
There are no easy choices in life. I’m no Democrat. But I know everyone’s lives will effectively be worse with Republicans in control.
The mere fact that Netanyahu wants Trump back in office should really give you a hint as to what’s the worst option here. Also the idea that people would mobilize more if Trump was offices simply silly. If tens of thousands of dead women and children don’t mobilize you nothing’s going to mobilize you.
Still Biden. Trump promises literal concentration camps. He wants a genocide here. Biden is begging Israel and Palestine for a ceasefire.
I can’t beg my children to eat healthier while continually buying them chips amd candy.
Politicians lie, yes? It is universally agreed upon that Politicians lie as far as I am aware. So why is it that libs can’t get it through their thick skulls that when Biden says he wants a ceasefire but month after month sends BILLIONS OF DOLLARS in weapons contracts, that he is completely full of shit when he says he wants a ceasefire?
He literally said that there’s no genocide yesterday. What a sick man. America always finds a way to irritate me.
Congress approved sending the weapons. It’s literally illegal for Biden not to send them. They wouldn’t even allow him not to send one type of bomb that would be especially catastrophic to civilians.
The president has oversight in weapons shipments.
Congress passed the Leahy law, which prevents weapons shipments to regimes that violate human rights.
The only thing the Biden state dept has to do is acknowledge Israel’s war crimes in a formal report. But they have been bending over backwards to delay and water down the report.
Biden could legally stop these genocidal resupplies today if he wanted to .
It’s way more complicated than Biden just saying so. It takes intensive investigation and can only be used for very specific reasons: torture, extrajudicial killing, enforced disappearance, and rape under color of law.
https://www.state.gov/key-topics-bureau-of-democracy-human-rights-and-labor/human-rights/leahy-law-fact-sheet/
Yes that intensive investigation has occurred, the report was released on May 10. It stopped just short of admitting gross violations of human rights in Gaza.
This political document, submitted by the Biden administration’s state department, laughably suggests that there is no evidence of intentional wrongdoing, nor did Israel arbitrarily obstruct humanitarian aid into Gaza.
I think the only way you can read this report and find it credible is if you are already filled with Zionist propaganda.
I listed the four reasons above by which arms can be withheld. Violations of human rights and obstructing aid are not on that list, like it or not. I find it highly more likely that if there was any wrongdoing, it was Israel concealing the truth from US investigators, not bad faith of the US government. Biden was literally one of the drafters of United Nations Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. I don’t see him standing by and letting that happen if he can help it.
All of which is happening in Gaza yes?
All of which is happening in Gaza yes?
Not that I am aware. The only one that might have happened is torture but that depends on whether the legal definition includes thing like waterboarding, sleep deprivation, or other things we like to call “enhanced interrogation”.
And yet he has come out strongly against the student protests with classic talking points like “law and order”. Stop making excuses for the bag of bones and own up to his positions if your going to support him.
I own up to his real position. I won’t own up to fake positions he never held. He sent offensive weapons to Israel after it was apparent this has gone far beyond simple defense from terrorists. If I had my choice I would have only sent humanitarian aid and defensive weapons like resupplies for the iron dome. I also suppose acknowledging Palestine while at the same time recognizing that Hamas is a dangerous group which leads the country and needs to be overthrown. The only way Israel will ever get Hamas out of Palestine is by supporting the Palestinian people who want to fight for control of their own country.
Isreal created Hamas through funding religious extremism in Gaza to undercut moderate political power. They have manufactured the justification for genocide, this is decades in the making. You have obviously consumed alot of zionist propaganda but it’s time to deprogram that shit.
The far right in Israel has a lot to answer for. There is no doubt that the actions of Israel in Palestine created Hamas. I think it’s too far of a jump to say this is intentionally creating a justification for genocide. It’s also important to acknowledge that the government in both countries doesn’t represent all of their people. There are genocidal assholes on both sides as well as those who want to coexist. I would prefer that Israel didn’t exist at all because any religious or ethnically exclusive country is troubling to me, but the Nazis didn’t leave us much choice.
deleted by creator
We certainly should not be upset about the position the Democrats have put the voters in.
Ah, yes, if only the Democrats hadn’t put the voters in this position by the voters nominating Biden in 2020. Damn those voters! They ruined voting!
Those pesky voters who forced Biden to support Genocide! Damn those voters! They ruined the Democratic party!
Of course, according to you, the voters only know what the STATE tells them to think, so I entirely understand your position that the voters’ support of genocide actually does not in any way reflect the voters’ support of genocide.
I think i’m getting it
Yes, that is an accurate portrayal of your position, in which the electorate has no agency and simply believes whatever The State tells them.
Notice how also the state has no agency either, wait…