In reality capitalism is one of the most authoritarian systems in history.
This statement is pretty disingenuous. First, authoritarian is a political system, not an economic one, but for the sake of argument let’s call authoritarian “the lack of personal choice or opportunity”. I feel like this definition captures the sentiment of the original post.
Don’t get me wrong, there are many flaws with the inequalities of capitalism, but it does provide much more freedom of opportunity than feudalism and substance farming in terms of economic systems. Those two have been the staple of civilization since its inception. Personally, I would choose the system where the deck is stacked against me, rather than the system where I don’t get delt a hand.
So no, I don’t think capitalism ranks as one of the most authoritarian systems in history. There are many changes we can make to reduce inequality and make the world “less authoritarian” though. Might be a better to push those ideas of improvement rather than pretending that we live in the worst time in history.
Well authoritarian can also describe systems of organization and I feel its apt here. The owner at the top dictates decisions. They hold all of the power in the relationship between owner and worker. Contrast it with a worker co-op being a socialist system where each employee has a stake in the company. The author is an anarchist historian and there was a time in recent history where politics and workplaces were intertwined at the height of Union power. The separation of politics in the workplace is relatively new.
I feel like comparisons like this don’t generally get made because capitalism is the default organising principle of the modern world, while feudalism (depending on where in the world we’re talking about) hasn’t been a thing for 150-800 years. People generally draw comparisons from what they experience and the experiences of those around them, not usually from history books.
Might be a better to push those ideas of improvement rather than pretending that we live in the worst time in history.
This feels like the british revisionism where they feel like they liberated the world while seemingly downplaying the violence and looting from half of the world.
They too probably peddled their propaganda like you do now that everyone under their imperialism lived better than they did before. Savages as they called them. And it’s fails to account for the violence it took to get to that point. Of course the people living in Britain lived a better life and had more opportunities than the rest of the world.
This is what the royal slaves probably think when comparing themselves to the poor people out of the kings palace.
Being a kings slave is much better than a slave for merchant. The merchant is going to exploit the slaves any way they can see fit, whereas the king has to at least maintain appearance of a “good” leader. And the king definitely didn’t become a king with peace and charity. That’s the current situation in rich-by-imperialism and poor countries. You feel like your king is the best king there is.
Capitalism succeeded by making the rich rich, and making the poor dream about being rich which was never possible in the system unless you’re really really smart or corrupt yourself to exploit others.
Let’s talk about ideas of improvement.
British/French/Spanish/Portuguese pay reparation to its past colonies.
US gives back the land to the native americans and stop calling themselves Americans
China gives back Tibet to its people
US is made accountable for all the coups and violence it caused around the world.
US war criminals are tried in International court
You don’t think these actions were result of capitalism? because they provably increased their capital a whole lot more during their imperialism. Or you just want ideas of improvement for your specific use case? Let’s just forget history when convenient, right?
Personally, I would choose the system where the deck is stacked against me, rather than the system where I don’t get delt a hand.
Which systems are you talking about? You don’t think all the points listed above makes you privileged be in a metaphorical “king’s palace” than the “merchants home” to have more opportunities than the rest of the world?
I’m not saying other system would do better because the capitalists never allowed any other system to ever gain foothold, did they? So, what are you comparing it against? Some 100 year old event, where history is suddenlyrelevant?
I’m not even sure how did you reach that conclusion of not being dealt a hand? The propaganda is out of whack.
US gives back the land to the native americans and stop calling themselves Americans
That sounds like teenage fantasy nonsense.
Cool, US bad - but how? Like give a step by step plan.
Let’s suppose that I am a Mexican migrant and after decades of hard work I purchased a block of land in Chicago. You get your dream scenario. What happens to my block?
Now that the land belongs to someone else the few hundred million people in the US that are not native Americans where do they go?
Do I go back to Mexico? What if I’m from Spanish descent? Do I go back to Spain?
Does everyone go back to their ancestral lands? What happens if they don’t exist anymore? Or if the current populations don’t want them?
How far back in history do you go to give back land?
Do the descendants of say the Ottomans give back the whole of Turkey to the previous populations?
Where does Istanbul go? To the Greeks? Or to the Italians? Should the Greeks also try to find Trojan descendants to give back Troy?
Should everyone that doesn’t descend from Gaul get the fuck out of France?
You make some valid points that I admit I didn’t consider. The british revisionism is an interesting analogy that I certainly didn’t consider when writing my comment.
Which systems are you talking about?
I was specifically comparing feudalism and subsistence farming to today’s capitalism. My entire point was arguing those two ways of life have dominated the most common or ‘modal human experience’ throughout history*. I believe the current state of the world provides more opportunity of choice for the modal citizen than either of those situations.
*History meaning of civilization, after the agricultural revolution, NOT the hunter gatherer experience.
I don’t think it’s constructive (or accurate) to call my post propaganda though. If your intent was to change my mind you’re starting off by taking a step backwards. If you’re trying to convince other readers of your position it might be effective, but I think I would be more willing to read a long comment if didn’t try to completely dismiss what it was replying to.
This statement is pretty disingenuous. First, authoritarian is a political system, not an economic one, but for the sake of argument let’s call authoritarian “the lack of personal choice or opportunity”. I feel like this definition captures the sentiment of the original post.
Don’t get me wrong, there are many flaws with the inequalities of capitalism, but it does provide much more freedom of opportunity than feudalism and substance farming in terms of economic systems. Those two have been the staple of civilization since its inception. Personally, I would choose the system where the deck is stacked against me, rather than the system where I don’t get delt a hand.
So no, I don’t think capitalism ranks as one of the most authoritarian systems in history. There are many changes we can make to reduce inequality and make the world “less authoritarian” though. Might be a better to push those ideas of improvement rather than pretending that we live in the worst time in history.
Well authoritarian can also describe systems of organization and I feel its apt here. The owner at the top dictates decisions. They hold all of the power in the relationship between owner and worker. Contrast it with a worker co-op being a socialist system where each employee has a stake in the company. The author is an anarchist historian and there was a time in recent history where politics and workplaces were intertwined at the height of Union power. The separation of politics in the workplace is relatively new.
I feel like comparisons like this don’t generally get made because capitalism is the default organising principle of the modern world, while feudalism (depending on where in the world we’re talking about) hasn’t been a thing for 150-800 years. People generally draw comparisons from what they experience and the experiences of those around them, not usually from history books.
Wealth is power. Economics are one side of the coin, politics is the other. They are not separate and cannot be separated.
This feels like the british revisionism where they feel like they liberated the world while seemingly downplaying the violence and looting from half of the world.
They too probably peddled their propaganda like you do now that everyone under their imperialism lived better than they did before. Savages as they called them. And it’s fails to account for the violence it took to get to that point. Of course the people living in Britain lived a better life and had more opportunities than the rest of the world.
This is what the royal slaves probably think when comparing themselves to the poor people out of the kings palace.
Being a kings slave is much better than a slave for merchant. The merchant is going to exploit the slaves any way they can see fit, whereas the king has to at least maintain appearance of a “good” leader. And the king definitely didn’t become a king with peace and charity. That’s the current situation in rich-by-imperialism and poor countries. You feel like your king is the best king there is.
Capitalism succeeded by making the rich rich, and making the poor dream about being rich which was never possible in the system unless you’re really really smart or corrupt yourself to exploit others.
Let’s talk about ideas of improvement.
You don’t think these actions were result of capitalism? because they provably increased their capital a whole lot more during their imperialism. Or you just want ideas of improvement for your specific use case? Let’s just forget history when convenient, right?
Which systems are you talking about? You don’t think all the points listed above makes you privileged be in a metaphorical “king’s palace” than the “merchants home” to have more opportunities than the rest of the world?
I’m not saying other system would do better because the capitalists never allowed any other system to ever gain foothold, did they? So, what are you comparing it against? Some 100 year old event, where history is suddenlyrelevant?
I’m not even sure how did you reach that conclusion of not being dealt a hand? The propaganda is out of whack.
That sounds like teenage fantasy nonsense.
Cool, US bad - but how? Like give a step by step plan.
Let’s suppose that I am a Mexican migrant and after decades of hard work I purchased a block of land in Chicago. You get your dream scenario. What happens to my block?
Now that the land belongs to someone else the few hundred million people in the US that are not native Americans where do they go?
Do I go back to Mexico? What if I’m from Spanish descent? Do I go back to Spain?
Does everyone go back to their ancestral lands? What happens if they don’t exist anymore? Or if the current populations don’t want them?
How far back in history do you go to give back land?
Do the descendants of say the Ottomans give back the whole of Turkey to the previous populations?
Where does Istanbul go? To the Greeks? Or to the Italians? Should the Greeks also try to find Trojan descendants to give back Troy?
Should everyone that doesn’t descend from Gaul get the fuck out of France?
Sounds a lot like blood purism with extra steps.
Give us your wisdom.
You make some valid points that I admit I didn’t consider. The british revisionism is an interesting analogy that I certainly didn’t consider when writing my comment.
I was specifically comparing feudalism and subsistence farming to today’s capitalism. My entire point was arguing those two ways of life have dominated the most common or ‘modal human experience’ throughout history*. I believe the current state of the world provides more opportunity of choice for the modal citizen than either of those situations.
*History meaning of civilization, after the agricultural revolution, NOT the hunter gatherer experience.
I don’t think it’s constructive (or accurate) to call my post propaganda though. If your intent was to change my mind you’re starting off by taking a step backwards. If you’re trying to convince other readers of your position it might be effective, but I think I would be more willing to read a long comment if didn’t try to completely dismiss what it was replying to.