I remember, a forum I was part of when I was in my youth had a good number of libertarians. I was on reasonably good terms with a number of them, and thought them genuine, if misguided.
The speed at which they changed their labeling to out-and-out fascists once Trump was elected was… staggering.
That was my experience also. I had a very smart coworker, a scientist, who was libertarian, very anti-police and everything. Then Trump came along and he went full fascist. It was very disturbing, and I haven’t trusted libertarians since.
Note: I’m using libertarian as shorthand for libertarian capitalist, which is mostly how it’s used in the US, though, as noted in another comment, there are other kinds of libertarians, like libertarian socialists.
Would you believe there are libertarian communists? It sounds like a contradiction. Old queer couples should be able to protect their Marijuana plants with guns and pay their taxes for welfare.
Or to be more exact: “LET ME BUILD A FUCKING SHED ON MY OWN LAND. ALSO, STOP TEARING DOWN HOMELESS PEOPLES’ TENTS.”
All that being said, the libertarian party has taken a horrible turn and I hate being conflated with a guy who had brain worms.
I want to be on the side that’s NOT on the HOA. What about this sounds like I want to police your yard? I’m advocating for personal freedoms. I’m: Pro choice. Pro Marijuana. Pro mail in vote. Pro welfare. Pro camping. Honestly, fuck you for being unnecessarily dogmatic. There are libertarians out there who DON’T say “lEt tHE StaTEs DecIde.”
Well you were yelling about sheds and growing weed. I assume you’re waving a gun around as you type. This is like a stereotypical rant at an HOA or city council meeting.
Speaking of which, here’s what a town run by libertarians looks like:
It would be hard to wave a gun and type, lol. That’s a battle AGAINST HOA and the city council. Also, I don’t identify with them. I’m a libertarian communist, not a “red pilled, tech bro, toll roading, anti-choice,” libertarian. I’ve largely denounced my party. I believe in the ideals, not the party. I don’t think that’s petty. If you do, I don’t think you’re politically active. That’s fine, but you should probably pull your head out of your asshole.
Yes, but the libertarian party of the USA doesn’t adhere to the roots of the party. No need to be so hostile, it was an honest question and the fu very much sounds like "get off my lawn!”
I’m drunk, and I’ll admit I’m being hostile. Also, fuck lawns. They’re a French staple meant to express wealth. They kill pollinators. I just want to build a shed. I like shed.
I’d very much like to learn and talk more with you about the original ideas of libertarianism when you’re sober. Back in the late 90s, before the American Libertarians took over the party and changed it, a friend suggested it sounded like a fit for me. I’d also like to know if any other libertarians who are in accord with the original values have an online space for discussion, and any ideas to reclaim the party mechanisms.
There are very few left. I considered myself a social libertarian for a while but I now just don’t like political labels. They’re terrible for getting a point across.
SHED ON MY OWN LAND. DIRECTLY NEXT TO MY NEIGHBORS LOT DIRECTLY AGAINST THE PROPERTY LINE AND FENCE AND THEIR GARAGE. THE SHED WILL BE FILLED WITH FLAMMABLE CHEMICALS LIKE GASOLINE AND ILL RUN MY OWN EXTENSION LINES TO IT AND BECAUSE I BUILT IT MYSELF THE ROOF WILL LEAK
Sorry I live in Boston and libertarians move here from farm land where houses are acres away from eachother and get all pissy they can’t cram their shed in the 4’ gap between their house and the one next to it. We’re constantly 1-2 libertarians away from a block wide fire consuming a dozen houses
Right, this is the part that Libertarians fail to grasp. Liberty comes with responsibility, and responsibility breeds liberty.
In some cultures there is enough civic engagement that they can mostly be trusted to build sheds which don’t become oil soaked termite nests after a few years. People take that responsibility seriously so they have more freedom. In the US, the attitude is almost exclusively the purview of childish edgelords who don’t care that their behavior impacts others, which is precisely what breeds the need for dumb regulations. The regulations for building a shed are exactly as dumb as the people building sheds.
Would you believe there are libertarian communists?
There were libertarian communists. Then Murry Rothbard and Ludwig Von Mises happened, and the movement was functionally hugged to death by John Birchers and other neo-confederate freaks.
Now we have the DSA, the PSL, and the Green Party.
Or to be more exact: “LET ME BUILD A FUCKING SHED ON MY OWN LAND. ALSO, STOP TEARING DOWN HOMELESS PEOPLES’ TENTS.”
That’s more old school Spanish-flavored anarchism than American Libertarian-Communism. The Libertarian Communists actually wanted to build communes. And some of them were successful, for at least a little while. You can find small towns sprinkled all over the upper midwest and the Pacific Coast that were started as hippie communes and trans-racial utopian communities dating back to the 40s and 50s, but then got re-absorbed into the national economy over subsequent decades.
Lots of the weirder home improvement laws and residency laws came through as a response to these projects, as Good Ole Boy state governments reasserted themselves over young indie counter-culture communities.
the libertarian party has taken a horrible turn and I hate being conflated with a guy who had brain worms
The official LP also rejected RFK Jr. He’s in with the Reform Party which was Ross Perot’s old party from the 90s and also the party Donald Trump tried to run under back in… I wanna say 2000?
The modern LP (at least down in Texas) is split neatly between the Kathy Glass freaks and the Pat Dixon geeks. A bunch of disaffected reactionary goons too insurrectionist for the Bush Era Republican party on the right and a bunch of NORML loving hippie anarchists on the left. Its actually kinda beautiful to see them all come together and bag on Trump.
Libertarians are much friendlier with conservatives than they are with liberals, however
I remember, a forum I was part of when I was in my youth had a good number of libertarians. I was on reasonably good terms with a number of them, and thought them genuine, if misguided.
The speed at which they changed their labeling to out-and-out fascists once Trump was elected was… staggering.
That was my experience also. I had a very smart coworker, a scientist, who was libertarian, very anti-police and everything. Then Trump came along and he went full fascist. It was very disturbing, and I haven’t trusted libertarians since.
Note: I’m using libertarian as shorthand for libertarian capitalist, which is mostly how it’s used in the US, though, as noted in another comment, there are other kinds of libertarians, like libertarian socialists.
Its the same all over. Right-wing “libertarians” are just socially embarrassed corporate statists.
Then they weren’t libertarians at all. They were randians
Would you believe there are libertarian communists? It sounds like a contradiction. Old queer couples should be able to protect their Marijuana plants with guns and pay their taxes for welfare.
Or to be more exact: “LET ME BUILD A FUCKING SHED ON MY OWN LAND. ALSO, STOP TEARING DOWN HOMELESS PEOPLES’ TENTS.”
All that being said, the libertarian party has taken a horrible turn and I hate being conflated with a guy who had brain worms.
Why do libertarian concerns always sound like loud petty arguments you would hear at the HOA?
I want to be on the side that’s NOT on the HOA. What about this sounds like I want to police your yard? I’m advocating for personal freedoms. I’m: Pro choice. Pro Marijuana. Pro mail in vote. Pro welfare. Pro camping. Honestly, fuck you for being unnecessarily dogmatic. There are libertarians out there who DON’T say “lEt tHE StaTEs DecIde.”
Well you were yelling about sheds and growing weed. I assume you’re waving a gun around as you type. This is like a stereotypical rant at an HOA or city council meeting.
Speaking of which, here’s what a town run by libertarians looks like:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling
It would be hard to wave a gun and type, lol. That’s a battle AGAINST HOA and the city council. Also, I don’t identify with them. I’m a libertarian communist, not a “red pilled, tech bro, toll roading, anti-choice,” libertarian. I’ve largely denounced my party. I believe in the ideals, not the party. I don’t think that’s petty. If you do, I don’t think you’re politically active. That’s fine, but you should probably pull your head out of your asshole.
Edit: I noticed you’re editing your comments
Edit 2: as rebuttal
Social libertarian is what you are looking for.
🤨
Yes, but the libertarian party of the USA doesn’t adhere to the roots of the party. No need to be so hostile, it was an honest question and the fu very much sounds like "get off my lawn!”
I’m drunk, and I’ll admit I’m being hostile. Also, fuck lawns. They’re a French staple meant to express wealth. They kill pollinators. I just want to build a shed. I like shed.
I’d very much like to learn and talk more with you about the original ideas of libertarianism when you’re sober. Back in the late 90s, before the American Libertarians took over the party and changed it, a friend suggested it sounded like a fit for me. I’d also like to know if any other libertarians who are in accord with the original values have an online space for discussion, and any ideas to reclaim the party mechanisms.
There are very few left. I considered myself a social libertarian for a while but I now just don’t like political labels. They’re terrible for getting a point across.
I’d get into that space too
I’m not catching your meaning.
SHED ON MY OWN LAND. DIRECTLY NEXT TO MY NEIGHBORS LOT DIRECTLY AGAINST THE PROPERTY LINE AND FENCE AND THEIR GARAGE. THE SHED WILL BE FILLED WITH FLAMMABLE CHEMICALS LIKE GASOLINE AND ILL RUN MY OWN EXTENSION LINES TO IT AND BECAUSE I BUILT IT MYSELF THE ROOF WILL LEAK
Sorry I live in Boston and libertarians move here from farm land where houses are acres away from eachother and get all pissy they can’t cram their shed in the 4’ gap between their house and the one next to it. We’re constantly 1-2 libertarians away from a block wide fire consuming a dozen houses
Right, this is the part that Libertarians fail to grasp. Liberty comes with responsibility, and responsibility breeds liberty.
In some cultures there is enough civic engagement that they can mostly be trusted to build sheds which don’t become oil soaked termite nests after a few years. People take that responsibility seriously so they have more freedom. In the US, the attitude is almost exclusively the purview of childish edgelords who don’t care that their behavior impacts others, which is precisely what breeds the need for dumb regulations. The regulations for building a shed are exactly as dumb as the people building sheds.
Stfu
There were libertarian communists. Then Murry Rothbard and Ludwig Von Mises happened, and the movement was functionally hugged to death by John Birchers and other neo-confederate freaks.
Now we have the DSA, the PSL, and the Green Party.
That’s more old school Spanish-flavored anarchism than American Libertarian-Communism. The Libertarian Communists actually wanted to build communes. And some of them were successful, for at least a little while. You can find small towns sprinkled all over the upper midwest and the Pacific Coast that were started as hippie communes and trans-racial utopian communities dating back to the 40s and 50s, but then got re-absorbed into the national economy over subsequent decades.
Lots of the weirder home improvement laws and residency laws came through as a response to these projects, as Good Ole Boy state governments reasserted themselves over young indie counter-culture communities.
The official LP also rejected RFK Jr. He’s in with the Reform Party which was Ross Perot’s old party from the 90s and also the party Donald Trump tried to run under back in… I wanna say 2000?
The modern LP (at least down in Texas) is split neatly between the Kathy Glass freaks and the Pat Dixon geeks. A bunch of disaffected reactionary goons too insurrectionist for the Bush Era Republican party on the right and a bunch of NORML loving hippie anarchists on the left. Its actually kinda beautiful to see them all come together and bag on Trump.
If you have to convince yourself that “libertarianism” is the answer, you have bigger issues than weed plants. It doesn’t matter how high they grow…
Is that a global thing for libertarians or good old American exceptionalism?
I thought in other countries, “libertarian” meant libertarian and not “embarrassed conservative”.
I agree with the first part, the second I consider as more belligerent, very unhealed inner child.
Until you get to weed and incarceration