and god help you if you ever use any of them, obviously you have time to play games you don’t have enough work to do. It’s all for show.
I remember a Meta recruiter reached out to me. We had a couple of talks, and then on one of them I asked “So how’s the work life balance”
Oh it’s great! We have a 24/7 cafeteria here, so if you ever need a snack it’s always available. We have sleeping pods, so you can easily sleep, and even 24/7 laundry services, so it’s all around a very relaxing place.
Uhhh yeah man. I’m not some kid fresh out of college. I own a home, and I’m very aware of my work time vs my personal time. Hard pass all around. Kids, if the company sounds too good to be true, there’s an ulterior motive. Those things sound super great… but they’re of course all meant to keep you working around the clock, meeting deadlines. The companies aren’t “hip” or “cool”, it’s all to attract you, and then work you to the bone. A strict 40 hour work week is better than foosball anyday.
I know I’m preaching to the choir but for the people interviewing for their first software gig - well maybe one of them will read this.
If I were a kid right out of college, I’d honestly consider it. The key is truly knowing what you’re getting into. Companies gobble up those kids out of college because they’re naiive, and they want to prove themselves. MAANG knows that and take advantage of it. As long as you’re aware of that going into it, and plan to use them too, then go for it. Just don’t plan to be a lifer, know that they don’t care about you going in.
Get in with the full idea of being a parasite, doing the barest minimum work possible while getting friendly with higher ups. It’s not like doing a good job there would be better for the customers/end users anyway
Right? I realistically just need 150k/yr to be stable in my area, I could chuck the other 150k/yr into savings and quit after 3 years with 450k in the bank
If I rember right google had an AI driving division that had huge cash incentives based on performance metrics that essentially crashed and burned because they hit targets so fast that main time retired for life in like a year or two
That sounds interesting, seeing as I am ‘somewhat’ familiar with google’s self driving car program right now, and very little about it is crashing or burning.
Those things sound super great… but they’re of course all meant to keep you working around the clock, meeting deadlines.
This is not going to be universally true at all big tech-companies. There are places with perfectly reasonable WLB on top of huge salaries and fantastic perks.
These places are usually big enough that you’re going to see extremes on both ends within the same company - some departments with huge deadline pressure cultures, and some with highly relaxed work settings. It can be a bit of a gamble.
I know I’m preaching to the choir but for the people interviewing for their first software gig
First software gig? In this market, take whatever to get experience imo.
But that second/third/etc job? Culture, then salary, then everything else. Last interview I went to bragged about giving everyone brand new sneakers yet pay $25k less than average.
We’ve got free local artisan coffee, organic fruit, mineral water, and beer. We turn the kitchen table into a ping pong table with a net after lunch for however long people want to use it and people do. At 17:00 everyone’s got a beer on their desk and by 18:00 the doors are locked and the lights are out. One Thursday a month the table is used for beer pong after work and we play card games like Exploding Kittens. Idk I like it here.
Not everywhere sucks. I’ve never worked an hour over my full-time requirements (ever), I get unlimited sick leave and no one shames me for missing a week as long as I call in properly. 31 Vacation days and company parties are nice too, plus paid travel time and nice hotel rooms. Also I’ve never made more money in my life and we’re all getting extra bonuses to cover the unexpected inflation.
Oh and I can work from home four days a week if I want to. Gotta come in that one day, but it’s a fifteen minute walk from my house so that’s just fine for me. I come in on Tuesdays because that’s when the company orders lunch for everyone (just one day a week but still cool).
At 17:00 everyone’s got a beer on their desk and by 18:00 the doors are locked and the lights are out. One Thursday a month the table is used for beer pong after work and we play card games like Exploding Kittens.
I’d rather go home at 17:00 and do all those things with my real friends, or you know, spend some quality time with my partner.
Plenty of my real friends are people I used to work with back before I was married and stopped getting as much out of this sort of culture… There doesn’t need to be some hard line here - just because you work with people doesn’t mean you can’t be friends
I envy you a bit. On the other hand, I have conditions that are at least okay, so I probably wouldn’t trade places because that’d be a lot of hassle searching for a nice place like yours and then trying to get into it
Just a little detail, is your company in the USA, in the EU, or elsewhere?
That sounds like a great gig! Great office life, and a ton of PTO (for American standards). Although I will say, I’ve been in small startups. The beer and alcohol is fun - but the startups grow. It’s all fun until someone who doesn’t drink joins, or someone develops a problem. Keep an eye on those two issues, about 3 of the 4 startups I’ve been at one of those has happened.
Wow you’re lucky. I’ve always wanted a job like that.
And for a while I had something similar but unfortunately rotten. We had a ping pong table, afterwork parties, no overtime, lunch, even a swimming pool. And we could use all of it.
However we were seriously underpaid, I got an 80% raise just by saying hello in another company. No remote work without any reason at all (most of my team was in other countries). And awful decision making by upper management.
Made me cynical if something like it is even possible. Glad to hear it is.
Company: Provides amenities and services that would (technically) allow a person to live on premises. Pays you enough to retire early if you didn’t have to bother with rent or a mortgage.
Also company: “We can’t hire you without a permanent residential address.”
I also worked at multiple places that had fully decked out break-rooms: free food, game consoles, VR, and 60-inch TVs. Everyone was afraid to use them for fear of looking like they were screwing around. Except the interns. They used the hell out of that stuff.
My wife’s job has all of those amenities, too! Well, it didn’t at first, but she’s been 100% WFH since covid. She’s got an office with a window, cats in the workplace, lunch is brought to her straight from the kitchen, and she can even take breaks to go on walks with her family during the day.
Would you rather spend 40h a week in a dull environment exchanging your time and mental focus for money or spend 50h in a fun and relaxed environment working on something interesting, but also having great nutrition available and with a laundry, so no more household chores for you?
To me #1 seems like you’re stuck exchanging the best of yourself for some paycheck. #2 sounds more like fun, but also gets you your paycheck.
If you’re at a point in your life where all you want from your job, office and colleagues is to see as little as possible of that and get as much money as you could, you need to make some serious changes.
You’re wasting the majority of your life. In order to enjoy the minority part. Nothing to be proud of, even less so is it justifying to be so toxic about people who do enjoy their jobs.
Why would I call it wasting? It’s funding the worthwhile part of my life, and it does a great job at it. I’ve been on several vacations already this year. I get to live where I want to. I have a great family that I love spending time with. To allow that I have firm limits with my job of 40 hours a week, then I go home. I enjoy several hours every night with them, and on weekends we usually go out and do something fun.
You keep trying to convince me I’m not happy, and I assure you I’m very happy with my lifestyle. If other people want to work more, more power to them. I don’t understand it, but I guess do what you enjoy. I don’t enjoy working - I enjoy my personal time. So I found a job that pays me well, respects my time, and every day promptly at 4 I clock off, and I enjoy my evening. Whatever work there is will be ready for me at 8am.
There are always things that get in the way, sometimes I need to work the occasional night, there’s a deadline, I’ve missed a few weekends - but I always take the time off the following week to make up for it. Your younger years are gone in a blip, these times become memories quickly. I have many fond memories of trips, time with loved ones, friends, and even coworkers. You know what I don’t remember? Projects, deadlines, and meetings.
I think it’s a matter of taste. OP has a great home life, so maybe they’d prefer the 40 hour gig. The 50 hour gig sounds better to me personally, ASSUMING IT’S ACTUALLY INTERESTING and not in a how-do-we-crush-souls-better way.
There’s nothing wrong with doing hard, unpleasant work so you can live outside of it. Does anybody actually enjoy pulling out a leaky sewer stack?
you might prefer a lonely isolated lifestyle, or your social environment being only your wife, kids and your suburban neighbors. But that’s absolutely not the case for most people who gladly socialize at work and prefer to have a great environment there. You all collectively shitting on it and praising work from home only shows that lemmy is a club of extreme introverts.
and god help you if you ever use any of them, obviously you have time to play games you don’t have enough work to do. It’s all for show.
I remember a Meta recruiter reached out to me. We had a couple of talks, and then on one of them I asked “So how’s the work life balance”
Uhhh yeah man. I’m not some kid fresh out of college. I own a home, and I’m very aware of my work time vs my personal time. Hard pass all around. Kids, if the company sounds too good to be true, there’s an ulterior motive. Those things sound super great… but they’re of course all meant to keep you working around the clock, meeting deadlines. The companies aren’t “hip” or “cool”, it’s all to attract you, and then work you to the bone. A strict 40 hour work week is better than foosball anyday.
I know I’m preaching to the choir but for the people interviewing for their first software gig - well maybe one of them will read this.
I agree with work life balance, but working at meta for 2-3 years for $300k might be worth the sacrifice
If I were a kid right out of college, I’d honestly consider it. The key is truly knowing what you’re getting into. Companies gobble up those kids out of college because they’re naiive, and they want to prove themselves. MAANG knows that and take advantage of it. As long as you’re aware of that going into it, and plan to use them too, then go for it. Just don’t plan to be a lifer, know that they don’t care about you going in.
deadname the pricks, you’re already doing it for google. it’s facebook
MAAAN would be a much better acronym though
That’s just, like, your opinion…
ANAMA
deleted by creator
I was thinking MAANA
Get in with the full idea of being a parasite, doing the barest minimum work possible while getting friendly with higher ups. It’s not like doing a good job there would be better for the customers/end users anyway
MAANG sounds like a Superman’s villain
I thought that it became MANGA when it changed from FAANG?
Right? I realistically just need 150k/yr to be stable in my area, I could chuck the other 150k/yr into savings and quit after 3 years with 450k in the bank
If I rember right google had an AI driving division that had huge cash incentives based on performance metrics that essentially crashed and burned because they hit targets so fast that main time retired for life in like a year or two
That sounds interesting, seeing as I am ‘somewhat’ familiar with google’s self driving car program right now, and very little about it is crashing or burning.
Self-driving probably was not the one successful AI program
3 years can be a very long time, though.
The hell? I live two years for 100k CHF. Lucerne, Switzerland, flat in the historic, more expensive part.
My soul is worth more than that, and I don’t even have one.
My office has two ping pong tables. They’re literally roped off with caution tape, and nobody is allowed to use them. I wish I were kidding.
Jesus, it’s like a cargo cult.
Also, happy cake day. Death to Reddit.
Make a photo. Great meme potential
Photo?
I wish I could, but cameras are restricted :/
Strange, not even a quick one?
I believe the industry term is “agile”.
Nah that just means they can’t plan for shit and are constantly fighting fires.
This is not going to be universally true at all big tech-companies. There are places with perfectly reasonable WLB on top of huge salaries and fantastic perks.
These places are usually big enough that you’re going to see extremes on both ends within the same company - some departments with huge deadline pressure cultures, and some with highly relaxed work settings. It can be a bit of a gamble.
First software gig? In this market, take whatever to get experience imo.
But that second/third/etc job? Culture, then salary, then everything else. Last interview I went to bragged about giving everyone brand new sneakers yet pay $25k less than average.
explain how!
aww, goods and services… I wanted money.
We’ve got free local artisan coffee, organic fruit, mineral water, and beer. We turn the kitchen table into a ping pong table with a net after lunch for however long people want to use it and people do. At 17:00 everyone’s got a beer on their desk and by 18:00 the doors are locked and the lights are out. One Thursday a month the table is used for beer pong after work and we play card games like Exploding Kittens. Idk I like it here.
Not everywhere sucks. I’ve never worked an hour over my full-time requirements (ever), I get unlimited sick leave and no one shames me for missing a week as long as I call in properly. 31 Vacation days and company parties are nice too, plus paid travel time and nice hotel rooms. Also I’ve never made more money in my life and we’re all getting extra bonuses to cover the unexpected inflation.
Oh and I can work from home four days a week if I want to. Gotta come in that one day, but it’s a fifteen minute walk from my house so that’s just fine for me. I come in on Tuesdays because that’s when the company orders lunch for everyone (just one day a week but still cool).
I’d rather go home at 17:00 and do all those things with my real friends, or you know, spend some quality time with my partner.
Plenty of my real friends are people I used to work with back before I was married and stopped getting as much out of this sort of culture… There doesn’t need to be some hard line here - just because you work with people doesn’t mean you can’t be friends
Well we gotta get in out 40 hours. Not more. We just start later.
I envy you a bit. On the other hand, I have conditions that are at least okay, so I probably wouldn’t trade places because that’d be a lot of hassle searching for a nice place like yours and then trying to get into it
Just a little detail, is your company in the USA, in the EU, or elsewhere?
Europe
That sounds like a great gig! Great office life, and a ton of PTO (for American standards). Although I will say, I’ve been in small startups. The beer and alcohol is fun - but the startups grow. It’s all fun until someone who doesn’t drink joins, or someone develops a problem. Keep an eye on those two issues, about 3 of the 4 startups I’ve been at one of those has happened.
Wow you’re lucky. I’ve always wanted a job like that.
And for a while I had something similar but unfortunately rotten. We had a ping pong table, afterwork parties, no overtime, lunch, even a swimming pool. And we could use all of it.
However we were seriously underpaid, I got an 80% raise just by saying hello in another company. No remote work without any reason at all (most of my team was in other countries). And awful decision making by upper management.
Made me cynical if something like it is even possible. Glad to hear it is.
Exploding Kittens is boring. Secret Hitler is a much better party game
Company: Provides amenities and services that would (technically) allow a person to live on premises. Pays you enough to retire early if you didn’t have to bother with rent or a mortgage.
Also company: “We can’t hire you without a permanent residential address.”
I also worked at multiple places that had fully decked out break-rooms: free food, game consoles, VR, and 60-inch TVs. Everyone was afraid to use them for fear of looking like they were screwing around. Except the interns. They used the hell out of that stuff.
My wife’s job has all of those amenities, too! Well, it didn’t at first, but she’s been 100% WFH since covid. She’s got an office with a window, cats in the workplace, lunch is brought to her straight from the kitchen, and she can even take breaks to go on walks with her family during the day.
Who does laundry at work?
Implication was that you stayed there overnight, and didn’t have to worry about needing clean clothes
Would you rather spend 40h a week in a dull environment exchanging your time and mental focus for money or spend 50h in a fun and relaxed environment working on something interesting, but also having great nutrition available and with a laundry, so no more household chores for you?
To me #1 seems like you’re stuck exchanging the best of yourself for some paycheck. #2 sounds more like fun, but also gets you your paycheck.
If you’re at a point in your life where all you want from your job, office and colleagues is to see as little as possible of that and get as much money as you could, you need to make some serious changes.
No, I have a home, a great family, and I cherish my hobbies and free time. I work to live, I don’t live to work.
A job will let you go the minute they need to. Your family will be with you for life, and it’s much more important.
You’re wasting the majority of your life. In order to enjoy the minority part. Nothing to be proud of, even less so is it justifying to be so toxic about people who do enjoy their jobs.
Why would I call it wasting? It’s funding the worthwhile part of my life, and it does a great job at it. I’ve been on several vacations already this year. I get to live where I want to. I have a great family that I love spending time with. To allow that I have firm limits with my job of 40 hours a week, then I go home. I enjoy several hours every night with them, and on weekends we usually go out and do something fun.
You keep trying to convince me I’m not happy, and I assure you I’m very happy with my lifestyle. If other people want to work more, more power to them. I don’t understand it, but I guess do what you enjoy. I don’t enjoy working - I enjoy my personal time. So I found a job that pays me well, respects my time, and every day promptly at 4 I clock off, and I enjoy my evening. Whatever work there is will be ready for me at 8am.
There are always things that get in the way, sometimes I need to work the occasional night, there’s a deadline, I’ve missed a few weekends - but I always take the time off the following week to make up for it. Your younger years are gone in a blip, these times become memories quickly. I have many fond memories of trips, time with loved ones, friends, and even coworkers. You know what I don’t remember? Projects, deadlines, and meetings.
Did you just call “family” the “minor part of life”‽ Or am I misunderstanding you?
I think it’s a matter of taste. OP has a great home life, so maybe they’d prefer the 40 hour gig. The 50 hour gig sounds better to me personally, ASSUMING IT’S ACTUALLY INTERESTING and not in a how-do-we-crush-souls-better way.
There’s nothing wrong with doing hard, unpleasant work so you can live outside of it. Does anybody actually enjoy pulling out a leaky sewer stack?
My god, #1 a million times over.
In the end, I don’t care what lifestyle my job can afford if I don’t have the time to enjoy it.
#3 spend 30-50 hours a week working on projects you find interesting working from home so you do laundry or make a sand which on a break.
Sometimes even cook a b8gger meal during training and such
That said, I never want to work a bullshit job, I know people who’ve ridden them out to retirement and I would rather just be homeless than that.
you might prefer a lonely isolated lifestyle, or your social environment being only your wife, kids and your suburban neighbors. But that’s absolutely not the case for most people who gladly socialize at work and prefer to have a great environment there. You all collectively shitting on it and praising work from home only shows that lemmy is a club of extreme introverts.
We have get togethers and go to conferences to have that.
I get that not everyone is the same though. Hell I’ve gone over to friends to work like the lab parties we had too, which I’m sure is an anomaly.