I will defend Batman Forever with my dying breath.
It was just the right amount of pretentious, gothic, and campy. If you go in expecting a serious modern Batman movie, you’re in for a bad time. As long as you go in expecting an absurd homage to the equally silly 60s show, mixed with a more modern self serious take, all of it straight-faced, you can enjoy it just fine. It’s tonal whiplash but it’s fun.
You got Jim Carrey in his prime, Tommy Lee Jones going full ham, both of them devouring every last inch of scenery. You got Nicole Kidman awakening something in every prepubescent boy, and a few girls too (and that’s where we get the People’s Joker from).
It also had the balls to give us a genuine attempt at Robin. Something the movies have been too chickenshit to do for nearly 30 years.
Now Batman and Robin…that’s where they took it too far. The balance was way off, way too cartoonish, with nothing to counterbalance it. It’s so painfully and obviously a toy commercial, in every way.
So many great bits in it too, I have always loved Riddler’s crocodile tears over his boss’s death only to snap out of it momentarily to give the most suss information possible lol
“I found this in my cubicle. You’ll notice that the handwriting matches his exactly, as does sentence-structure and spelling…” Sobbing
Batman and Robin is unironically my favorite. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug. The rest of the movies seemed too serious for me in comparison. I have been meaning to get them, so my opinion could change. On a related note, a lot of my favorite movies don’t have the best reviews
Nolan’s got nothing on Tim Burton. Batman Returns was the darkest live action Batman we’ve gotten so far. Expecting it to be more serious like the two Burton movies that preceded it was a big part of it’s negative reception when it came out. It’s easier to split the series between the Burton led as good as live action Batman gets first 2 movies and the family friendly second 2 movies when you’re looking back on them than it was as they were being released. I also really like it though. I especially appreciated “Holy rusted metal, Batman!”
I don’t hate Batman Forever as much as other people do. That being said, I do have issues with the film. Lets start with my biggest issue.
Tommy Lee Jones.
He misses the mark so hard on what this character is supposed to be. He’s supposed to be both a villain, and a hero, but always percieved as a villain.
Because if you save 50 puppies from a burning building, but then throw 1 puppy back into the fire, nobody talks about the 49 puppies you saved. It’s always about the one you killed.
Take that concept, split it 50/50, and he’s supposed to genuinely feel bad about half of what he does. Have empathy for the victims. But the other half ENJOYS making them victims. So he’s unclear on what to do. Thats why he has a double sided coin, with one half scratched up. Instead of a regular coin.
Theres a scene where he is trying to decide to kill Nichole Kidman, and he flips the coin. Shows her both sides of the coin and says “Heads you live, tails you lose”. Flips the coin comes up heads. He gets angry, and flips again. Heads again. Gets angry, flips again. Heads. Says something, and then does the tails outcome anyways before batman saves her.
THATS NOT TWO FACE THEN!!! THATS JUST A PSYCHOPATH COSPLAYING AS TWO FACE!!!
Twoface would have saw heads, let her go, flee the scene, and then ponder the events later.
Tommy Lee Jones and this movie played him more like Ceasar Romero’s Joker. Yes he went full ham, and for that character, that’s the problem.
Then there’s Batman. I do not even remember his performance. Title character, and I don’t remember him. I don’t remember Bruce Wayne. I don’t remember Batman…but I remember Bat-nipples. Wtf???
I really can’t say I have much issue with Jim Carrys riddler. I will say it should have gone to Robin Williams, who was originally used as bait to get Jack Nickolson to agree to play Joker for less money.
So now when Robin Williams was up for the Riddler, his manager said nobody could match Williams energy. They said “Robin, it’s a lock. Done deal. If anybody COULD hold a candle to you, we’d already be managing them”…completely forgetting that a young breakout star had just emerged in Jim Carry. I would have liked to see a darker Riddler. One that Carry or Williams have the chops to play…but the studios didn’t know that Carry could do a dark serious role in 1994. He was The Mask. He was Ace Ventura. But his serious acting roles wouldn’t be seen for a few more years. So I get that THIS movie wasn’t going to go for dark and brooding…but it would have been awesome. I’m just sad Robin Williams got screwed. He really took offense to hollywoods version of “just business”. Both here, and from Disney years earlier.
And my smallest gripe. The title.
Batman.
Batman Returns.
Batman…Forever?
So, you can’t make any more sequals after this. This one is forever.
Silly gripe, I know, but those 4th grade schoolyard arguements DO stay with you. I argued so hard that this would be the last one. A friend argued me regularly that they HAVE TO make another one. Because they still needed to have Scarecrow, Bane, Harley Quinn and Joker (together), Poison Ivy, and that crocodile monster from the sewers.
All year this, among other debates raged hard. Then I changed schools, and didn’t know him in 1996 when Batman & Robin came out. But I ran into him about a decade ago. After all the “how have you been???” was over, first thing he says is “…so, Batman and Robin happened.” And I had to laugh. He was right…but also, that movie was so terrible that even the director appologized for it. So it doesn’t count.
I will defend Batman Forever with my dying breath.
It was just the right amount of pretentious, gothic, and campy. If you go in expecting a serious modern Batman movie, you’re in for a bad time. As long as you go in expecting an absurd homage to the equally silly 60s show, mixed with a more modern self serious take, all of it straight-faced, you can enjoy it just fine. It’s tonal whiplash but it’s fun.
You got Jim Carrey in his prime, Tommy Lee Jones going full ham, both of them devouring every last inch of scenery. You got Nicole Kidman awakening something in every prepubescent boy, and a few girls too (and that’s where we get the People’s Joker from).
It also had the balls to give us a genuine attempt at Robin. Something the movies have been too chickenshit to do for nearly 30 years.
Now Batman and Robin…that’s where they took it too far. The balance was way off, way too cartoonish, with nothing to counterbalance it. It’s so painfully and obviously a toy commercial, in every way.
So many great bits in it too, I have always loved Riddler’s crocodile tears over his boss’s death only to snap out of it momentarily to give the most suss information possible lol
“I found this in my cubicle. You’ll notice that the handwriting matches his exactly, as does sentence-structure and spelling…” Sobbing
LOL
Batman and Robin is unironically my favorite. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug. The rest of the movies seemed too serious for me in comparison. I have been meaning to get them, so my opinion could change. On a related note, a lot of my favorite movies don’t have the best reviews
I just laughed so loud. Thank you friend, it was needed.
No problemo. Honestly I would watch Batman & Robin again just for Mr Freeze and his beautiful puns
I’m probably about to start with the Burton movies and watch through Batman and Robin. Sounds perfect for this rainy day
That’s a day to be jealous of 👌
Nolan’s got nothing on Tim Burton. Batman Returns was the darkest live action Batman we’ve gotten so far. Expecting it to be more serious like the two Burton movies that preceded it was a big part of it’s negative reception when it came out. It’s easier to split the series between the Burton led as good as live action Batman gets first 2 movies and the family friendly second 2 movies when you’re looking back on them than it was as they were being released. I also really like it though. I especially appreciated “Holy rusted metal, Batman!”
I don’t hate Batman Forever as much as other people do. That being said, I do have issues with the film. Lets start with my biggest issue.
Tommy Lee Jones.
He misses the mark so hard on what this character is supposed to be. He’s supposed to be both a villain, and a hero, but always percieved as a villain.
Because if you save 50 puppies from a burning building, but then throw 1 puppy back into the fire, nobody talks about the 49 puppies you saved. It’s always about the one you killed.
Take that concept, split it 50/50, and he’s supposed to genuinely feel bad about half of what he does. Have empathy for the victims. But the other half ENJOYS making them victims. So he’s unclear on what to do. Thats why he has a double sided coin, with one half scratched up. Instead of a regular coin.
Theres a scene where he is trying to decide to kill Nichole Kidman, and he flips the coin. Shows her both sides of the coin and says “Heads you live, tails you lose”. Flips the coin comes up heads. He gets angry, and flips again. Heads again. Gets angry, flips again. Heads. Says something, and then does the tails outcome anyways before batman saves her.
THATS NOT TWO FACE THEN!!! THATS JUST A PSYCHOPATH COSPLAYING AS TWO FACE!!!
Twoface would have saw heads, let her go, flee the scene, and then ponder the events later.
Tommy Lee Jones and this movie played him more like Ceasar Romero’s Joker. Yes he went full ham, and for that character, that’s the problem.
Then there’s Batman. I do not even remember his performance. Title character, and I don’t remember him. I don’t remember Bruce Wayne. I don’t remember Batman…but I remember Bat-nipples. Wtf???
I really can’t say I have much issue with Jim Carrys riddler. I will say it should have gone to Robin Williams, who was originally used as bait to get Jack Nickolson to agree to play Joker for less money.
So now when Robin Williams was up for the Riddler, his manager said nobody could match Williams energy. They said “Robin, it’s a lock. Done deal. If anybody COULD hold a candle to you, we’d already be managing them”…completely forgetting that a young breakout star had just emerged in Jim Carry. I would have liked to see a darker Riddler. One that Carry or Williams have the chops to play…but the studios didn’t know that Carry could do a dark serious role in 1994. He was The Mask. He was Ace Ventura. But his serious acting roles wouldn’t be seen for a few more years. So I get that THIS movie wasn’t going to go for dark and brooding…but it would have been awesome. I’m just sad Robin Williams got screwed. He really took offense to hollywoods version of “just business”. Both here, and from Disney years earlier.
And my smallest gripe. The title.
Batman.
Batman Returns.
Batman…Forever?
So, you can’t make any more sequals after this. This one is forever.
Silly gripe, I know, but those 4th grade schoolyard arguements DO stay with you. I argued so hard that this would be the last one. A friend argued me regularly that they HAVE TO make another one. Because they still needed to have Scarecrow, Bane, Harley Quinn and Joker (together), Poison Ivy, and that crocodile monster from the sewers.
All year this, among other debates raged hard. Then I changed schools, and didn’t know him in 1996 when Batman & Robin came out. But I ran into him about a decade ago. After all the “how have you been???” was over, first thing he says is “…so, Batman and Robin happened.” And I had to laugh. He was right…but also, that movie was so terrible that even the director appologized for it. So it doesn’t count.