At least one person in the audience is there to take a picture and point out how many people are still there ; )
What do you expect, the church to completely dissolve? I wouldn’t be surprised if this church had some serious theological issues given its association with Trump, but one pastor, even the lead pastor, doing an evil doesn’t mean the whole church is faulty.
but one pastor, even the lead pastor, doing an evil doesn’t mean the whole church is faulty.
There’s a reason the saying is “one bad apple spoils the whole bunch.” That kind of fraud and manipulation infects the leadership, wittingly or unwittingly, and I would not be shocked to learn that he’s taught them some bad habits when it comes to outing bad leaders. I myself left another megachurch whose story was very similar to this one, and while it may not be exactly the same, it’s uncanny how the stories rhyme.
I don’t think it can really infect them if they didn’t know about the crime until recently. That being said, I understand your concern. Christians are meant to be built different, though. Jesus was a friend of sinners. We’re not assumed to be corrupted because we hung around someone who was corrupt.
The way my church’s denomination does it, when a pastor steps down, they pull in a new pastor from another church, which also alleviates this concern. I say this not to defend Gateway Church (their new pastor is the old pastor’s son,) but to demonstrate that not all churches have the problems you hear about.
I’m aware of how other churches operate. “Not all churches, tho” isn’t particularly relevant to the topic, and if you want to get into it, I have plenty to say about the Church as an institution. But that’s not what I was referring to with my comment.
I wasn’t implying that the congregants are somehow tainted by association or that they are somehow “secretly influenced to be pedophiles.” What I meant is that I know for a fact that followers behave like their leaders, and he likely employed all kinds of mental gymnastics, scriptural torturing, and whatever other tricks to justify why he shouldn’t face justice.
That influence is increased the closer you are to that leader, which is why it wouldn’t surprise me if the leadership that was under him still contains the tendrils of his abusive influence and subsequently influences the congregants in lesser ways.
…but one pastor, even the lead pastor, doing an evil doesn’t mean the whole church is faulty.
You’re probably right. The problem I’m running into is religion’s history of causing literally every issue you can think of, up to and including war and everything that comes with it. So while that church may not be faulty, our failure to not use religion as a wall to hide atrocities behind sorta makes it automatically on the wrong side of the fence. Unless it proves otherwise, of course. Which, I think, it has failed to do so quite remarkably.
It’s not just about good vs evil. It’s about love and forgiveness. That’s not to say pedophiles should get off scot free, because it’s also wisdom - it’s very unwise to keep a pedophile in a position where they have access to kids like that.
But I digress. If the org is imploded, all the churchgoers will have to find a new church, and many won’t bother. Unless the church has serious theological issues (which just about no church would think they do,) that wouldn’t be good. Instead, it’s possible to remove the bad apple and replace them with someone else. The way my church’s denomination does it, whenever a pastor steps down, the new pastor comes from another church, which helps to make sure there isn’t lasting corruption. From what I read about this one, the new pastor is the old pastor’s son, so…
If the org is imploded, all the churchgoers will have to find a new church, and many won’t bother
oh’s nos. moving on.
Unless the church has serious theological issues
if their pastors are pedophiles I’d suggest it has some serious fucking theological issues.
The way my church’s denomination does it, whenever a pastor steps down, the new pastor comes from another church, which helps to make sure there isn’t lasting corruption.
displaying a bare minimum of sense at least…
From what I read about this one, the new pastor is the old pastor’s son, so…
Looks like, based off a quick Wikipedia skim:
What do you expect, the church to completely dissolve? I wouldn’t be surprised if this church had some serious theological issues given its association with Trump, but one pastor, even the lead pastor, doing an evil doesn’t mean the whole church is faulty.
There’s a reason the saying is “one bad apple spoils the whole bunch.” That kind of fraud and manipulation infects the leadership, wittingly or unwittingly, and I would not be shocked to learn that he’s taught them some bad habits when it comes to outing bad leaders. I myself left another megachurch whose story was very similar to this one, and while it may not be exactly the same, it’s uncanny how the stories rhyme.
I don’t think it can really infect them if they didn’t know about the crime until recently. That being said, I understand your concern. Christians are meant to be built different, though. Jesus was a friend of sinners. We’re not assumed to be corrupted because we hung around someone who was corrupt.
The way my church’s denomination does it, when a pastor steps down, they pull in a new pastor from another church, which also alleviates this concern. I say this not to defend Gateway Church (their new pastor is the old pastor’s son,) but to demonstrate that not all churches have the problems you hear about.
I’m aware of how other churches operate. “Not all churches, tho” isn’t particularly relevant to the topic, and if you want to get into it, I have plenty to say about the Church as an institution. But that’s not what I was referring to with my comment.
I wasn’t implying that the congregants are somehow tainted by association or that they are somehow “secretly influenced to be pedophiles.” What I meant is that I know for a fact that followers behave like their leaders, and he likely employed all kinds of mental gymnastics, scriptural torturing, and whatever other tricks to justify why he shouldn’t face justice.
That influence is increased the closer you are to that leader, which is why it wouldn’t surprise me if the leadership that was under him still contains the tendrils of his abusive influence and subsequently influences the congregants in lesser ways.
You’re probably right. The problem I’m running into is religion’s history of causing literally every issue you can think of, up to and including war and everything that comes with it. So while that church may not be faulty, our failure to not use religion as a wall to hide atrocities behind sorta makes it automatically on the wrong side of the fence. Unless it proves otherwise, of course. Which, I think, it has failed to do so quite remarkably.
corruption in the ecclesiastical leadership of a spiritual organization - pedophelia no less - should implode any such org.
their whole thing is supposedly about good and evil and righteous justice for victims, if you read their texts.
instead it’s another grift. tithes and perverts.
It’s not just about good vs evil. It’s about love and forgiveness. That’s not to say pedophiles should get off scot free, because it’s also wisdom - it’s very unwise to keep a pedophile in a position where they have access to kids like that.
But I digress. If the org is imploded, all the churchgoers will have to find a new church, and many won’t bother. Unless the church has serious theological issues (which just about no church would think they do,) that wouldn’t be good. Instead, it’s possible to remove the bad apple and replace them with someone else. The way my church’s denomination does it, whenever a pastor steps down, the new pastor comes from another church, which helps to make sure there isn’t lasting corruption. From what I read about this one, the new pastor is the old pastor’s son, so…
oh’s nos. moving on.
if their pastors are pedophiles I’d suggest it has some serious fucking theological issues.
displaying a bare minimum of sense at least…
so the grift goes on.