And we have a hell of a lot better system for fighting back than the Germans did. And a lot better precedent to shed light on why to resist it. And, the Nazis were famously sort of clownish and incompetent especially in the early days but compared with Rudy Giuliani and Mike Lindell they were fuckin Seal Team 6.
If the MAGA folks bring fascism for real to the US, it will be the Americans’ fault that they let it happen.
If there’s one thing Milton Mayer keeps coming back to, it’s how it was all the fault of the establishment German political parties of the early 1930s for not being more motivating of people to vote for them, and no one on an individual level needs to do anything until they do first. He keeps harping on that central point: If a dangerous political movement arises in your country, it’s okay to hang out and wait and not resist it until the alternative is sufficiently awesome for your tastes. It’s pretty much the central theme of his whole book.
(I mean, honestly, I don’t disagree with you that the general crappiness of most of the Democrats from about 1992 up to and including 2016 laid some abundant groundwork for the rise of Trump. That doesn’t mean it is safe for anyone in the world to let Trump come to power again this year.)
If there’s one thing Milton Mayer keeps coming back to, it’s how it was all the fault of the establishment German political parties of the early 1930s for not being more motivating of people to vote for them, and no one on an individual level needs to do anything until they do first. He keeps harping on that central point: If a dangerous political movement arises in your country, it’s okay to hang out and wait and not resist it until the alternative is sufficiently awesome for your tastes. It’s pretty much the central theme of his whole book.
And as always, you decide that I’ve said something I haven’t.
I mean, honestly, I don’t disagree with you that the general crappiness of most of the Democrats from about 1992 up to and including 2016 laid some abundant groundwork for the rise of Trump.
They didn’t stop in 2016.
That doesn’t mean it is safe for anyone in the world to let Trump come to power again this year.
And as always, you decide that I’ve said something I haven’t.
You talked about “the party” that was supposed to be fighting fascism. It honestly hadn’t even occurred to me to designate some other group of people who were “supposed to” accomplish it on my behalf. My point was, we should be fighting fascism. You and me. I think it’s silly to pick out someone else who’s “supposed to” be doing it, although, yes, it is true that anyone else should also be “supposed to” be doing it too. But more, I was viewing it as a personal task and responsibility, and I thought it was silly and passive to turn that whole thing into a reason to whine about the Democrats (although there is one specific sense in which it’s completely justified which I address in my second paragraph).
Now that I’ve explained a little more fully does that sound more ok? I was exaggerating a little to lampoon what sounded like your central message because it’s boring if I just lay out what my specific disagreement is with what you said. I mean it’s definitely boring on my side for me to lay out for the 200th time why I disagree with some conversation that all of a sudden for no organic reason at all turned into “and that’s why the Democrats are bad!” out of nowhere.
We might have some disagreement because you could describe that all as “incrementalism” and say that Biden’s no good unless he’s willing to overthrow capitalism or use his magic wand to get congress go agree to the massive things that would have needed to happen to overcome 40+ years of neoliberal betrayal. I think the fact that he was able to accomplish it at all with Washington the way it is is a feckin miracle.
To me, the issue with the Democrats, that laid the groundwork for Trump, wasn’t “incrementalism” or too slow progress in the right direction. It was shittiness and active movement in the wrong direction. Biden’s not guilty of that, so I didn’t accuse him of it. If the Democrats since 1992 had been doing incrementalism, we might have some kind of country that is even in the neighborhood as good as it was in 1992, and it wasn’t real great in 1992.
And we have a hell of a lot better system for fighting back than the Germans did. And a lot better precedent to shed light on why to resist it. And, the Nazis were famously sort of clownish and incompetent especially in the early days but compared with Rudy Giuliani and Mike Lindell they were fuckin Seal Team 6.
If the MAGA folks bring fascism for real to the US, it will be the Americans’ fault that they let it happen.
The party that is supposed to be fighting nazis is so devoted to incrementalism that they won’t do enough until it’s too late.
If there’s one thing Milton Mayer keeps coming back to, it’s how it was all the fault of the establishment German political parties of the early 1930s for not being more motivating of people to vote for them, and no one on an individual level needs to do anything until they do first. He keeps harping on that central point: If a dangerous political movement arises in your country, it’s okay to hang out and wait and not resist it until the alternative is sufficiently awesome for your tastes. It’s pretty much the central theme of his whole book.
(I mean, honestly, I don’t disagree with you that the general crappiness of most of the Democrats from about 1992 up to and including 2016 laid some abundant groundwork for the rise of Trump. That doesn’t mean it is safe for anyone in the world to let Trump come to power again this year.)
And as always, you decide that I’ve said something I haven’t.
They didn’t stop in 2016.
Didn’t say it was.
You talked about “the party” that was supposed to be fighting fascism. It honestly hadn’t even occurred to me to designate some other group of people who were “supposed to” accomplish it on my behalf. My point was, we should be fighting fascism. You and me. I think it’s silly to pick out someone else who’s “supposed to” be doing it, although, yes, it is true that anyone else should also be “supposed to” be doing it too. But more, I was viewing it as a personal task and responsibility, and I thought it was silly and passive to turn that whole thing into a reason to whine about the Democrats (although there is one specific sense in which it’s completely justified which I address in my second paragraph).
Now that I’ve explained a little more fully does that sound more ok? I was exaggerating a little to lampoon what sounded like your central message because it’s boring if I just lay out what my specific disagreement is with what you said. I mean it’s definitely boring on my side for me to lay out for the 200th time why I disagree with some conversation that all of a sudden for no organic reason at all turned into “and that’s why the Democrats are bad!” out of nowhere.
Student loan forgiveness 40% emissions reduction NLRB corporate tax increases
We might have some disagreement because you could describe that all as “incrementalism” and say that Biden’s no good unless he’s willing to overthrow capitalism or use his magic wand to get congress go agree to the massive things that would have needed to happen to overcome 40+ years of neoliberal betrayal. I think the fact that he was able to accomplish it at all with Washington the way it is is a feckin miracle.
To me, the issue with the Democrats, that laid the groundwork for Trump, wasn’t “incrementalism” or too slow progress in the right direction. It was shittiness and active movement in the wrong direction. Biden’s not guilty of that, so I didn’t accuse him of it. If the Democrats since 1992 had been doing incrementalism, we might have some kind of country that is even in the neighborhood as good as it was in 1992, and it wasn’t real great in 1992.