There has been significant discussion in recent weeks regarding Meta/Threads. We would like to express our disappointment with the negative and threatening tone of some of these discussions. We kindly ask everyone to engage in civil discourse and remember that not everyone will share the same opinions, which is perfectly acceptable.
When considering whether or not to defederate from Threads, we’re looking for a decision based on facts that prioritize your safety. We strive to remain neutral to make an informed choice.
First, there seem to be some misconceptions about how the Fediverse operates based on several posts. We’ve compiled some resource links to help explain the details and address any misunderstandings.
Fed Tips , Fediverse , ActivityPub
Initial Thoughts:
It seems unlikely that Meta will federate with Lemmy. When/if Meta adopts ActivityPub, it will likely affect Mastodon only rather than Lemmy, given Meta’s focus on being a Twitter alternative at the moment.
Please note that we have a few months before Threads will even federate with Mastodon, so we have some time to make the right decision.
Factors to Consider:
Factors to consider if Meta federates with Lemmy:
Privacy - While it’s true that Meta’s privacy settings for the app are excessive, it’s important to note that these settings only apply to users of the official Threads app and do not impact Lemmy users. It’s worth mentioning that Lemmy does not collect any personal data, and Meta has no means of accessing such data from this platform. In addition, when it comes to scraping data from your post/comments, Meta doesn’t need ActivityPub to do that. Anyone can read your profile and public posts as it is today.
Moderation - If a server hosts a substantial amount of harmful content without performing efficient and comprehensive moderation, it will create an excessive workload for our moderators. Currently, Meta is utilizing its existing Instagram moderation tools. Considering there were 95 million posts on the first day, this becomes worrisome, as it could potentially overwhelm us and serve as a sufficient reason for defederation.
Ads - It’s possible if Meta presents them as posts.
Promoting Posts - It’s possible with millions of users upvoting a post for it to trend.
Embrace, extend, and extinguish (EEE) - We don’t think they can. If anyone can explain how they technically would, please let us know. Even if Meta forks Lemmy and gets rid of the original software, Lemmy will survive.
Instance Blocking - Unlike Mastodon, Lemmy does not provide a feature for individual users to block an instance (yet). This creates a dilemma where we must either defederate, disappointing those who desire interaction with Threads, or choose not to defederate, which will let down those who prefer no interaction with Threads.
Blocking Outgoing Federation - There is currently no tool available to block outgoing federation from lemmy.world to other instances. We can only block incoming federation. This means that if we choose to defederate with our current capabilities, Threads will still receive copies of lemmy.world posts. However, only users on Threads will be able to interact with them, while we would not be able to see their interactions. This situation is similar to the one with Beehaw at the moment. Consequently, it leads to significant fragmentation of content, which has real and serious implications.
Conclusion:
From the points discussed above, the possible lack of moderation alone justifies considering defederation from Threads. However, it remains to be seen how Meta will handle moderation on such a large scale. Additionally, the inability of individuals to block an instance means we have to do what is best for the community.
If you have any added points or remarks on the above, please send them to @[email protected].
You are not the end point in the analogy. Your instance is. So for example if I’m an instance I have a list of servers I’m federated with. Every time a user posts a comment, I send out an update to every instance on the list.
This is the same way Federation works. The instances only accept updates from instances that are federated. I could send out ActivityPub updates all day to an instance, but without a user from that instance triggering the federation nothing will happen.
Consent has to come in to be federated. Remember you are not the end point - the instance is. The instance then distributes that information to its users.
Mate the fucking USER is what matters here. Stop trying to disconnect outcomes from the topic.
And stop talking down to me about how federation works ffs I have been active on lemmy for 3 years I know very well how lemmy works. It’s super weird that people who just started using it come over from reddit and then start immediately talking down to literally everyone under the assumption they don’t know how it works, despite they themselves having spent literally 1 week of time on it. It’s a very “do not cite the deep magic to me I was there when it was written” moment.
Yes which is why the admins are irresponsible and reprehensible human beings for even considering putting the kids in a room with the rapists. Along with all the people who are advocating for that.
Both email and the fediverse (activitypub) are communication protocols. The communication happens between servers, not between users. Each server can have their own protocol for going from user-> server or server -> user. But server -> server must always be the same protocol - ActivityPub. That is what makes this whole thing work.
I post a comment on Lemmy.world -> I send a post request to lemmy.world with an output destination, let’s say kbin.social
Lemmy.world sends that information to kbin.social -> Lemmy.world sends a post request to the destination server
Kbin.social puts a notification on the receiving user’s front page -> second user gets the message when he sends a get request to view his messages
If he wants to reply we do it backwards… but the key thing is that the servers are communicating with each other in a standard protocol. Exactly like email.
So for the 3rd time - what do you think is the value of an email server that refuses emails from Gmail? Would you personally use that email server? Maybe you would, but I wouldn’t. Because a lot of people use Gmail and it would impede my professional work and likely personal life at some point.
Tldr; The communication in the Fediverse happens between instances, not users. I’m not saying users aren’t important.
It doesn’t matter at all how long you’ve been here. I’ve read through the ActivityPub docs and have been playing around with the Lemmy dev environment. I’ve taken an active interest in this for the last month or so - before that I’ve never heard of it. I’m saying what I believe to be true in the clearest way I can.
As for your last part - I think the best thing to do is to let the individual user decide. Give the option for the user to hide content from servers they don’t want to see.
Coincidentally, just like how email servers work like you elegantly pointed out in a previous comment.
I’m kind of bored with this argument but w/e. The lemmy instances that are defederating with meta are also defederating with anyone else that does not defederate with meta, so this instance will end up in a corpo bubble with the other corpo instances I guess.
Let’s turn this around. What do you think is the value of a Lemmy instance that is only federated with other Lemmy instances that have a pro-corporate attitude? Given that the platform itself has been built for anti-corporate means and that the userbases that will continue to join it for the forseeable future will be doing so from waves of disgruntled people in other social media.
The entire point is to disconnect from them and disempower them. Not to just reconnect with them on a different protocol. As people become unhappy with corporate media, they will transition to the non-corporate media, but not if it doesn’t exist because bazinga-brained stonks-minded line-must-go-up morons were obsessed with just recreating the exact same ecosystem of power that already existed but with a slightly different skin.
Ok Ayn Rand / Maggie Thatcher