“In an opinion article in The New York Times, columnist Ezra Klein wrote that “[a] truer title would be ‘Why to Blow Up a Pipeline’”, characterizing Malm’s answer as “[because] nothing else has worked”. Stating that Malm was “less convincing” about “whether blowing up pipelines would work here, and now”, Klein argued that there would likely be political consequences to sabotage, including imprisonment of climate activists as well as political repression.[13]”
Seems like a reasonable position to me. He’s saying that the argument amounts to “may as well try” and that it doesn’t get into specifics of what the actual material consequences of the action would be, which is a fair critique. He doesn’t say that the argument is wrong, just that it’s not fully explored.
And he is right that retaliation by the state is the only truly foreseeable consequence, and that is a big deal. It’s the main reason to avoid picking fights with the state unless you’re in a position to win those fights. What “winning” looks like is up for debate and depends on your goals, but you have to consider the response.
It sounds like this is a question that can only be answered with empirical testing.
That is a short term problem for trying to fight a long term catastrophe.
I would prefer to not cause a mess, and further harm natural spaces, but as you can see. Not only are passive demonstrations not effective, they have severe jail time. So at this point, i see it as the most logical step
And as these sentences get handed down and there are more political prisoners and martyrs, more people will start to think that way.
Current eco activists tend to be very conscientious and considered about what they’re doing. As it gets more popular, you’ll get people joining who are considerably less measured in their actions, and the likelihood of drastic actions increases.
Well a lot of them run through more or less suburban areas. So doing it there would have lower environmental impact while greatly raising awareness of how many pipelines run through populated places.
That would almost certainly only hurt poor neighbourhoods, and that’s easy for the media to sweep under the rug. They’ve perfected the art of dehumanising the poor.
I think the reality is that we don’t know the consequences. I mean, I’m not saying it shouldn’t happen, but the effects are impossible to predict.
That’s probably why environmentalist movements that tend to be full of only the most conscientious people have shied away from it. They would want to know what they were getting into first.
If things get bad enough that ecoterrorism becomes popular and a wider array of people take up the cause, we’ll probably find out the answer to these questions.
Separately on Thursday, three airports were granted high court injunctions against fossil fuel and environmental activists protesting at their sites. Leeds Bradford airport, London Luton airport and Newcastle international airport were given injunctions banning protesters from trespassing or causing a nuisance.
I do. I however approach it with a pragmatic strategy. Blocking traffic doesn’t work. It doesn’t change minds, it doesn’t change policy. It prevents hourly workers from getting paid.
I agree with every thing you have said, except the execution. It hurts poor people and doesn’t change policy.
I’m from Germany. What is wrong with you man? Your comment is a testimony of how fucked up your country actually is. Get your shit together.
Besides, this post is about the UK not the US. Not everything is about the US. Infact, you’re not as central in international discussions as you think you are. Most people in Europe don’t give a shit and are just laughing at your rediculous attempt of a democracy.
Re read your posts and think real hard this time. You know, about violence you would like to inflict on the violent protestors. I am sure you can figure it out. And calling you a Republican is not about calling out where you are from, just that you share their qualities, specifically their penchant to be nothing if not hypocritical, and projecting.
What even is a Republican? Isn’t the US a two-party system? So everyone has to be classified with exactly two opinions? Not more and not less? Like I’m either Rep or Dem? Answer is: I’m neither. Not my problem that you can’t vote for neither but you don’t need to classify me as your two parties.
Not really, there are two parties with political power, but people run the gambit of political ideology. In this case i am using “republican” as a derogatory descriptor, based on your wish for violence against people who are violent but don’t agree with you.
Those who make peaceful protests impossible make violent rebellion inevitable.
Right? If it’s years in prison either way, they’re about to find out what real eco terrorism looks like when protestors are ready to go all in.
I’m constantly surprised that the endless unmonitored miles of oil pipelines don’t ever bombed.
How to Blow Up a Pipeline
“In an opinion article in The New York Times, columnist Ezra Klein wrote that “[a] truer title would be ‘Why to Blow Up a Pipeline’”, characterizing Malm’s answer as “[because] nothing else has worked”. Stating that Malm was “less convincing” about “whether blowing up pipelines would work here, and now”, Klein argued that there would likely be political consequences to sabotage, including imprisonment of climate activists as well as political repression.[13]”
Whelp, Erza Klein can eat the whole of my ass.
Seems like a reasonable position to me. He’s saying that the argument amounts to “may as well try” and that it doesn’t get into specifics of what the actual material consequences of the action would be, which is a fair critique. He doesn’t say that the argument is wrong, just that it’s not fully explored.
And he is right that retaliation by the state is the only truly foreseeable consequence, and that is a big deal. It’s the main reason to avoid picking fights with the state unless you’re in a position to win those fights. What “winning” looks like is up for debate and depends on your goals, but you have to consider the response.
It sounds like this is a question that can only be answered with empirical testing.
That actively works against the cause because it would do so much harm to the local ecosystems
That is a short term problem for trying to fight a long term catastrophe.
I would prefer to not cause a mess, and further harm natural spaces, but as you can see. Not only are passive demonstrations not effective, they have severe jail time. So at this point, i see it as the most logical step
And as these sentences get handed down and there are more political prisoners and martyrs, more people will start to think that way.
Current eco activists tend to be very conscientious and considered about what they’re doing. As it gets more popular, you’ll get people joining who are considerably less measured in their actions, and the likelihood of drastic actions increases.
Well a lot of them run through more or less suburban areas. So doing it there would have lower environmental impact while greatly raising awareness of how many pipelines run through populated places.
That would almost certainly only hurt poor neighbourhoods, and that’s easy for the media to sweep under the rug. They’ve perfected the art of dehumanising the poor.
I think the reality is that we don’t know the consequences. I mean, I’m not saying it shouldn’t happen, but the effects are impossible to predict.
That’s probably why environmentalist movements that tend to be full of only the most conscientious people have shied away from it. They would want to know what they were getting into first.
If things get bad enough that ecoterrorism becomes popular and a wider array of people take up the cause, we’ll probably find out the answer to these questions.
I guess that’s what they’re aiming for, to turn the general public against protests (even more).
Absolutely. From the end of the article:
Getting someone fired for missing work isn’t helping your cause in ANY way.
You want to protect workers? Shitting on people who try to protect the environment isn’t it.
Ban union busting, ban arbitrary firing, set up a worker protections.
Do those things first. Then come complain.
Grow some class consciousness.
I do. I however approach it with a pragmatic strategy. Blocking traffic doesn’t work. It doesn’t change minds, it doesn’t change policy. It prevents hourly workers from getting paid.
I agree with every thing you have said, except the execution. It hurts poor people and doesn’t change policy.
If anything the richest people are the ones driving to work. Cars are expensive.
I can confirm that this is not the case.
Is bicycling and public transit not cheaper than owning a car?
Not in my specific circumstances, no.
Why is that? I assume you’ve costed both of them out?
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The hypocrisy is strong with this one. Must be a Republican.
I’m from Germany. What is wrong with you man? Your comment is a testimony of how fucked up your country actually is. Get your shit together.
Besides, this post is about the UK not the US. Not everything is about the US. Infact, you’re not as central in international discussions as you think you are. Most people in Europe don’t give a shit and are just laughing at your rediculous attempt of a democracy.
Re read your posts and think real hard this time. You know, about violence you would like to inflict on the violent protestors. I am sure you can figure it out. And calling you a Republican is not about calling out where you are from, just that you share their qualities, specifically their penchant to be nothing if not hypocritical, and projecting.
What even is a Republican? Isn’t the US a two-party system? So everyone has to be classified with exactly two opinions? Not more and not less? Like I’m either Rep or Dem? Answer is: I’m neither. Not my problem that you can’t vote for neither but you don’t need to classify me as your two parties.
Not really, there are two parties with political power, but people run the gambit of political ideology. In this case i am using “republican” as a derogatory descriptor, based on your wish for violence against people who are violent but don’t agree with you.
Read this again.