No, I made a passing comment about how the comparison the OP made isn’t particularly effective and, in the social media 200m obstacles you have decided to create a tangent nitpicking that caveat to death because you think it scores points instead of being an obnoxious stalemate.
So no, it’s not “the same”, what it is is relevant to note that pretty much every piece of hardware you buy does at least request that you log in to a service and, of course, the part you’re actively ignoring, which is that all dedicated hardware and software platforms in the market, VR or not, do require a mandatory login.
So can we get back to the point or do you want to keep litigating your deliberate misrepresentation indefinitely? I see you have plenty of time, given you got so antsy about waiting 30 minutes for a response.
In reply to someone complaining that a head mounted display forces you to have a Facebook/Meta login in order to use it at all, you brought up that “a bunch” of monitors also “ask” that you do the same.
But:
asking is not the same as forcing.
monitors don’t do that anyway, your argument is a lie.
I have never seen a monitor’s OSD popping up and pestering you to sign in.
all dedicated hardware and software platforms in the market, VR or not, do require a mandatory login.
I honestly don’t put it past Samsung. Their TVs already do. I have an old monitor, and I’m currently using what will probably be my last smartphone from them. They make good hardware, but I’m tired of them insisting on knowing everything I do to use it.
Yet. Their TVs, on the other hand, will do everything in their power to go online. Their phones just had an update to their software where the privacy policy is basically “We need access to all your data if you want to use anything beyond the base functionality.” So, given the trends, no, I don’t put it past them.
That’s why I didn’t just say that monitors also ask for your login and that was just a minor postcript throwaway at the end of the post.
But by all means, please do provide a counterexample of a standalone software or hardware platform that doesn’t request a login. I am waiting with bated breath. Can’t wait for somebody trying to actually define this grudge beyond amorphous rage to see the scope of what’s being requested.
That’s why I didn’t just say that monitors also ask for your login
Yes you did. Scroll up.
that was just a minor postcript throwaway at the end of the post.
I’m sorry, does your lie being at the end of a post rather than at the start somehow mean it doesn’t count?
But by all means, please do provide a counterexample of a standalone software or hardware platform that doesn’t request a login. I am waiting with bated breath.
Stop moving the goalposts. You said they force you. Now you’re saying request.
Don’t you remember saying that they force you? Here’s your quote:
“all dedicated hardware and software platforms in the market, VR or not, do require a mandatory login.”
And for that I could name a bunch of examples. You don’t have to make a Google account to use an Android phone. You don’t have to make a Nintendo account to play on a Switch. You don’t need an account to play play Blu-rays on a Blu-ray player. My smart TV doesn’t need a Google account or a Sony account. You don’t need an account to watch YouTube. Etc. Those are all hardware, software, or both ecosystems.
How aren’t you understanding that asking (or in the case of monitors, not even asking - to be very clear, you lied about that) for a login and requiring it aren’t the same?
Nobody has an issue with Facebook/Microsoft/Google asking you to sign in. But they absolutely have a problem with it being enforced. Particularly when it’s for something as basic as displaying an HDMI signal.
Well, we do know that you want to litigate the misrepresentation indefinitely.
So you’re lying about what I said. Which always weirds me out because… well it’s still there, you can look at it. Here’s what I said:
EDIT: Also, for the record, there are a bunch of monitor manufacturers that do ask for a login. Hi, ASUS Armoury Crate, you suck and have always sucked.
You will notice the word “have” is not in fact in that piece of text (well, except for “you have always sucked”). The word “ask” is in that piece of text. If you have questions about the meaning of those words please feel free to look them up.
Now, about your other absurd lie.
You HAVE to make a Google account to use the Google Play store, which is the platform (Android is just the OS). You HAVE to make a Nintendo account to use the eShop, although I do give you partial credit on that one, if you stick to physical media only you can still play some games on it.
Meanwhile, you DO need an account to use, in no particular order: Steam VR, PSVR, Playstation in general, Xbox in general, Apple Vision Pro, an iPhone, GOG, EA Play, and since you’re willing to include services beyond gaming and software, also Kindle, Amazon Prime Video, HBO Max, Netflix, Disney Plus, Paramount Plus, the LG, Samsung and Sony free streaming services, Plex, Spotify, Tidal and so, so many more.
Oh, and Lemmy.
So if Microsoft MAKES you log in to use an Xbox and Sony MAKES you log in to use a PlayStation and Steam MAKES you log in to use… well, Steam and Steam VR, then why are you singling out Meta?
That’s rethorical, by the way, it’s because this was a legitimate issue back in 2020 when they briefly enforced a Facebook log in for both new and existing users and people were legitimately mad for a bit, and then they changed policy after all the backlash but people didn’t want to stop being mad at them for other reasons so here we are. Having to endure the absurd dance of somebody pretending that a company with a closed platform containing a store and a digital distribution service would require a login to operate just like everybody else.
Well, we do know that you want to litigate the misrepresentation indefinitely.
I’m just calling out a lie. I like to do that. I’m sorry that offends you.
So you’re lying about what I said.
Nope.
EDIT: Also, for the record, there are a bunch of monitor manufacturers that do ask for a login. Hi, ASUS Armoury Crate, you suck and have always sucked.
And they don’t. No monitor asks you to sign in before (or after) using it.
Now, about your other absurd lie.
I haven’t lied once, that’s all on you.
You HAVE to make a Google account to use the Google Play store
Yes? Who said otherwise? The play store isn’t required for you to use your phone.
which is the platform (Android is just the OS).
Please don’t take offence at this, but are you mentally deficient? Of course Android is a platform. In every sense of the word. It’s a platform for apps, it’s a platform for development, it’s a platform for all kinds of things.
Let’s look at the Cambridge definition:
Platform, noun. (Computing)
"the type of computer system or smartphone you are using, in relation to the type of software (= computer programs) you can use on it:
This new personal banking software can be used with any Windows platform.
Both Apple’s iOS and Google’s Android mobile platforms now have emoji keyboards built into their software."
You HAVE to make a Nintendo account to use the eShop
Again, you don’t need the eShop to use a switch.
I also see you ignoring that I mentioned YouTube. Is that not a platform in your confused mind?
Oh, and Lemmy.
Wrong.
So if Microsoft MAKES you log in to use an Xbox and Sony MAKES you log in to use a PlayStation and Steam MAKES you log in to use… well, Steam and Steam VR, then why are you singling out Meta?
Because:
This submission is about Meta. Of course I’m talking about Meta.
It’s a fucking display and gyrometer. It has zero reason to enforce using an account, unlike a storefront/game platform such as steam, which can’t really work without accounts.
That’s rethorical, by the way
I don’t care. I’ve addressed your nonsense regardless.
It’s because this was a legitimate issue back in 2020
Was and still is.
legitimately mad for a bit
Still are, and for good reason.
people didn’t want to stop being mad at them for other reasons
Nope. For the same reason. They enforce a Facebook/Meta login.
Having to endure the absurd dance of somebody pretending that a company with a closed platform containing a store and a digital distribution service would require a login to operate just like everybody else.
No.
Please STOP with these brazen lies.
NOBODY, and I do literally mean nobody, ever, anywhere, in any capacity, has an issue with Facebook requiring an account to use their storefront.
People do have an issue with Facebook requiring a log in to use a bloody HDMI port on a head mounted display they sell.
You know this, because you’ve already been told, you are just purposely being contrarian because you get off on it or something, I don’t know.
A Quest isn’t a HMD, it’s a self-contained system. It has its own OS (and Android variant, I believe), it has its own built-in store, it runs its own software right on the SoC built into the device. It very much isn’t “displays and gyrometers”. You can’t even use it as a HMD for a separate computer without booting the OS first and running software on both ends. It operates like a Steam Link (which also requires logging in, by the way).
So… I’m sorry if this frustrates your vitriol, but you are factually wrong about how this operates. I’ve worn my Quest today. I am not lying to you.
As I am not lying to you when I tell you Meta gave up the Facebook login requirement years ago. You can just make a separate Quest account if you want. You can in fact detach your old Facebook account if you had it linked. You can also make multiple accounts on the same device and use them offline. I know because I have that exact setup on my Quest right now.
Don’t think I don’t notice that you’re trying to squirrel out of having lied here by flipping to “a Facebook/Meta account”. It won’t fly. The issue people had was having to tie their headsets to Facebook and their social media ID. Meta accounts can be made freely with just a burner email, just like a PSN or an Xbox account, you don’t need to associate it to anything else. It’s not the same.
Also, please, if you’re just going to respond with factually incorrect monosyllables don’t bother with the quotes, it’s a waste of space.
I’m gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re speaking from ignorance here. I am less willing to forgive the sheer amount of rage given how wrong you are on the verifiable facts. Much as you’re in character for a Ferengi, you may want to consider holding back some of that anger for an issue you actually care about. You’re gonna run out.
Look, you clearly have way more time on your hands to simp for Facebook than I do to figure your lies, so I’m only going to cover the first few lines of your comment. I’m not even going to bother reading the rest of your comment. It’s probably just more lies anyway.
Eh… you don’t seem to know how any of this works.
The irony.
A Quest isn’t a HMD, it’s a self-contained system.
No shit. I alluded to that myself, when I said it has a storefront. That’s obviously not something a monitor could run itself.
I’m going to put this in bold, italics, and in caps, maybe then it’ll get through to you:
FACEBOOK’S QUEST DEVICES REQUIRE YOU TO HAVE AN ACCOUNT JUST TO USE IT AS A BASIC DISPLAY. I DON’T FIND ENFORCING A FACEBOOK/META ACCOUNT TO USE AN HDMI PORT/DISPLAY TO BE ACCEPTABLE. NEITHER DO MANY OTHERS. STOP TRYING TO MISREPRESENT WHAT I AND OTHERS ARE SAYING.
Did that get through? Do you understand?
Now, maybe you’re fine with jumping through whatever hoops Facebook wants to put in place. Maybe you think it’s a good thing. Maybe you have posters of Zuckerberg up in your bathroom so he can watch you piss. I’m not really interested.
If you like signing in with a Facebook account, good for you. You enjoy your quest. I’m ecstatic with joy for you, YOU DO YOU KING. But not everyone wants to be forced into signing in with a Facebook/Meta account to use a display output.
I don’t sign in with a Facebook account. I decoupled that stuff because it is something you now can do after Meta caved to the pressure.
Which I’ve noticed you’re no longer claiming didn’t happen, so I guess for all the bold all-caps Internet yelling we’re making progress. But still, that’s what this thread was about, before you got here all yelly and screamy and weird latching onto some random comment about monitors.
Now, what you’re saying is confusing because you seem confused about what you’re angry about. One, Oculus (not Meta, this was pre-Facebook) backed off on its pre-release claims that it would not require a separate store to use the device and deployed the Oculus store with no cross-purchase options with Steam. And yes, that meant you needed to log in to Oculus (not Meta) to use the Rift and the Rift S. That sucked because the app sucked and it didn’t always play nice with Steam VR and was basically bloatware. That remains in place, although Meta has shifted to being all Quest-first, so it’s pretty residual.
And then there’s the Quest, which is, again, a self-contained platform and has the same login requirements from any other self-contained platform. It also happens to have software support to be used as a PC display wired and wirelessly. Wirelessly this is pretty straightforward: you simply do not want to wirelessly stream your display to ANYTHING that isn’t locked out from public access. That is a big duh.
For wired display your mileage may vary a bit more, but it’s very likely not trivial to use the device as a HMD without going through the device, just technically. It definitely seems like a disproportionate amount of rage, though, considering that a) there are plenty of alternatives for “dumb” HMDs, and b) Meta is famously subsidizing the crap out of the Quest (which is, again, the point of this thread), so it’s a bit weird to be screamy mad about them not engineering a way to use it while it’s turned off as a simple HMD.
That is so far above and beyond the original reason people were mad about it’s absurd. It no longer is “Oculus backed down into not having its own exclusive store purchases”, it no longer is “Meta backed down on not forcing to link the Quest with Facebook accounts”, it is now “Meta should let me use its heavily subsidized device without ever interacting with its OS to repurpose it as a cheap HMD for a different device”. Not only are they not alone in doing that (Sony is only now allowing the PSVR 2 being used on PC, and that requires an additional purchase), but it’s so above and beyond of a fringe use case it warrants exactly zero anger. Go buy a device that… you know, doesn’t have an Android OS and a SoC in it. What are you mad at Meta about?
And for the record, I do NOT like Meta at all. I actively avoid most of their products any time I can. If I have to interact with anything Meta in my browser I put it on a Firefox container with nothing else. I actively believe they should be split up. They are a big part of a larger dynamic around social media eroding the very concept of liberal democratic statehood.
But also… that’s enough to get mad at them? Like, I don’t need to make up additional, random, factually incorrect, entirely unreasonable entitled customer whiney crap to be mad about. There is plenty of reasonable stuff that doesn’t make me sound like ranting lunatic on the Internet, and if they want to sell me VR hardware at half price or whatever I feel no need to do mental gymnastics to avoid it. I will ride that train and suckle on that teat for as long as good old Zuck wants to give me cheap hardware. Believe it or not, it’s entirely possible to hold those two stances at the same time.
No, I made a passing comment about how the comparison the OP made isn’t particularly effective and, in the social media 200m obstacles you have decided to create a tangent nitpicking that caveat to death because you think it scores points instead of being an obnoxious stalemate.
So no, it’s not “the same”, what it is is relevant to note that pretty much every piece of hardware you buy does at least request that you log in to a service and, of course, the part you’re actively ignoring, which is that all dedicated hardware and software platforms in the market, VR or not, do require a mandatory login.
So can we get back to the point or do you want to keep litigating your deliberate misrepresentation indefinitely? I see you have plenty of time, given you got so antsy about waiting 30 minutes for a response.
No.
In reply to someone complaining that a head mounted display forces you to have a Facebook/Meta login in order to use it at all, you brought up that “a bunch” of monitors also “ask” that you do the same.
But:
asking is not the same as forcing.
monitors don’t do that anyway, your argument is a lie.
I have never seen a monitor’s OSD popping up and pestering you to sign in.
That is not true either.
deleted by creator
I honestly don’t put it past Samsung. Their TVs already do. I have an old monitor, and I’m currently using what will probably be my last smartphone from them. They make good hardware, but I’m tired of them insisting on knowing everything I do to use it.
They do not ask you to login to use your monitor.
Yet. Their TVs, on the other hand, will do everything in their power to go online. Their phones just had an update to their software where the privacy policy is basically “We need access to all your data if you want to use anything beyond the base functionality.” So, given the trends, no, I don’t put it past them.
Yes.
That’s why I didn’t just say that monitors also ask for your login and that was just a minor postcript throwaway at the end of the post.
But by all means, please do provide a counterexample of a standalone software or hardware platform that doesn’t request a login. I am waiting with bated breath. Can’t wait for somebody trying to actually define this grudge beyond amorphous rage to see the scope of what’s being requested.
So yeah, please, do go on.
No.
Yes you did. Scroll up.
I’m sorry, does your lie being at the end of a post rather than at the start somehow mean it doesn’t count?
Stop moving the goalposts. You said they force you. Now you’re saying request.
Don’t you remember saying that they force you? Here’s your quote:
And for that I could name a bunch of examples. You don’t have to make a Google account to use an Android phone. You don’t have to make a Nintendo account to play on a Switch. You don’t need an account to play play Blu-rays on a Blu-ray player. My smart TV doesn’t need a Google account or a Sony account. You don’t need an account to watch YouTube. Etc. Those are all hardware, software, or both ecosystems.
How aren’t you understanding that asking (or in the case of monitors, not even asking - to be very clear, you lied about that) for a login and requiring it aren’t the same?
Nobody has an issue with Facebook/Microsoft/Google asking you to sign in. But they absolutely have a problem with it being enforced. Particularly when it’s for something as basic as displaying an HDMI signal.
Well, we do know that you want to litigate the misrepresentation indefinitely.
So you’re lying about what I said. Which always weirds me out because… well it’s still there, you can look at it. Here’s what I said:
You will notice the word “have” is not in fact in that piece of text (well, except for “you have always sucked”). The word “ask” is in that piece of text. If you have questions about the meaning of those words please feel free to look them up.
Now, about your other absurd lie.
You HAVE to make a Google account to use the Google Play store, which is the platform (Android is just the OS). You HAVE to make a Nintendo account to use the eShop, although I do give you partial credit on that one, if you stick to physical media only you can still play some games on it.
Meanwhile, you DO need an account to use, in no particular order: Steam VR, PSVR, Playstation in general, Xbox in general, Apple Vision Pro, an iPhone, GOG, EA Play, and since you’re willing to include services beyond gaming and software, also Kindle, Amazon Prime Video, HBO Max, Netflix, Disney Plus, Paramount Plus, the LG, Samsung and Sony free streaming services, Plex, Spotify, Tidal and so, so many more.
Oh, and Lemmy.
So if Microsoft MAKES you log in to use an Xbox and Sony MAKES you log in to use a PlayStation and Steam MAKES you log in to use… well, Steam and Steam VR, then why are you singling out Meta?
That’s rethorical, by the way, it’s because this was a legitimate issue back in 2020 when they briefly enforced a Facebook log in for both new and existing users and people were legitimately mad for a bit, and then they changed policy after all the backlash but people didn’t want to stop being mad at them for other reasons so here we are. Having to endure the absurd dance of somebody pretending that a company with a closed platform containing a store and a digital distribution service would require a login to operate just like everybody else.
I’m just calling out a lie. I like to do that. I’m sorry that offends you.
Nope.
And they don’t. No monitor asks you to sign in before (or after) using it.
I haven’t lied once, that’s all on you.
Yes? Who said otherwise? The play store isn’t required for you to use your phone.
Please don’t take offence at this, but are you mentally deficient? Of course Android is a platform. In every sense of the word. It’s a platform for apps, it’s a platform for development, it’s a platform for all kinds of things.
Let’s look at the Cambridge definition:
Platform, noun. (Computing)
"the type of computer system or smartphone you are using, in relation to the type of software (= computer programs) you can use on it:
This new personal banking software can be used with any Windows platform.
Both Apple’s iOS and Google’s Android mobile platforms now have emoji keyboards built into their software."
Again, you don’t need the eShop to use a switch.
I also see you ignoring that I mentioned YouTube. Is that not a platform in your confused mind?
Wrong.
Because:
This submission is about Meta. Of course I’m talking about Meta.
It’s a fucking display and gyrometer. It has zero reason to enforce using an account, unlike a storefront/game platform such as steam, which can’t really work without accounts.
I don’t care. I’ve addressed your nonsense regardless.
Was and still is.
Still are, and for good reason.
Nope. For the same reason. They enforce a Facebook/Meta login.
No.
Please STOP with these brazen lies.
NOBODY, and I do literally mean nobody, ever, anywhere, in any capacity, has an issue with Facebook requiring an account to use their storefront.
People do have an issue with Facebook requiring a log in to use a bloody HDMI port on a head mounted display they sell.
You know this, because you’ve already been told, you are just purposely being contrarian because you get off on it or something, I don’t know.
Eh… you don’t seem to know how any of this works.
A Quest isn’t a HMD, it’s a self-contained system. It has its own OS (and Android variant, I believe), it has its own built-in store, it runs its own software right on the SoC built into the device. It very much isn’t “displays and gyrometers”. You can’t even use it as a HMD for a separate computer without booting the OS first and running software on both ends. It operates like a Steam Link (which also requires logging in, by the way).
So… I’m sorry if this frustrates your vitriol, but you are factually wrong about how this operates. I’ve worn my Quest today. I am not lying to you.
As I am not lying to you when I tell you Meta gave up the Facebook login requirement years ago. You can just make a separate Quest account if you want. You can in fact detach your old Facebook account if you had it linked. You can also make multiple accounts on the same device and use them offline. I know because I have that exact setup on my Quest right now.
Don’t think I don’t notice that you’re trying to squirrel out of having lied here by flipping to “a Facebook/Meta account”. It won’t fly. The issue people had was having to tie their headsets to Facebook and their social media ID. Meta accounts can be made freely with just a burner email, just like a PSN or an Xbox account, you don’t need to associate it to anything else. It’s not the same.
Also, please, if you’re just going to respond with factually incorrect monosyllables don’t bother with the quotes, it’s a waste of space.
I’m gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re speaking from ignorance here. I am less willing to forgive the sheer amount of rage given how wrong you are on the verifiable facts. Much as you’re in character for a Ferengi, you may want to consider holding back some of that anger for an issue you actually care about. You’re gonna run out.
Look, you clearly have way more time on your hands to simp for Facebook than I do to figure your lies, so I’m only going to cover the first few lines of your comment. I’m not even going to bother reading the rest of your comment. It’s probably just more lies anyway.
The irony.
No shit. I alluded to that myself, when I said it has a storefront. That’s obviously not something a monitor could run itself.
I’m going to put this in bold, italics, and in caps, maybe then it’ll get through to you:
FACEBOOK’S QUEST DEVICES REQUIRE YOU TO HAVE AN ACCOUNT JUST TO USE IT AS A BASIC DISPLAY. I DON’T FIND ENFORCING A FACEBOOK/META ACCOUNT TO USE AN HDMI PORT/DISPLAY TO BE ACCEPTABLE. NEITHER DO MANY OTHERS. STOP TRYING TO MISREPRESENT WHAT I AND OTHERS ARE SAYING.
Did that get through? Do you understand?
Now, maybe you’re fine with jumping through whatever hoops Facebook wants to put in place. Maybe you think it’s a good thing. Maybe you have posters of Zuckerberg up in your bathroom so he can watch you piss. I’m not really interested.
If you like signing in with a Facebook account, good for you. You enjoy your quest. I’m ecstatic with joy for you, YOU DO YOU KING. But not everyone wants to be forced into signing in with a Facebook/Meta account to use a display output.
I don’t sign in with a Facebook account. I decoupled that stuff because it is something you now can do after Meta caved to the pressure.
Which I’ve noticed you’re no longer claiming didn’t happen, so I guess for all the bold all-caps Internet yelling we’re making progress. But still, that’s what this thread was about, before you got here all yelly and screamy and weird latching onto some random comment about monitors.
Now, what you’re saying is confusing because you seem confused about what you’re angry about. One, Oculus (not Meta, this was pre-Facebook) backed off on its pre-release claims that it would not require a separate store to use the device and deployed the Oculus store with no cross-purchase options with Steam. And yes, that meant you needed to log in to Oculus (not Meta) to use the Rift and the Rift S. That sucked because the app sucked and it didn’t always play nice with Steam VR and was basically bloatware. That remains in place, although Meta has shifted to being all Quest-first, so it’s pretty residual.
And then there’s the Quest, which is, again, a self-contained platform and has the same login requirements from any other self-contained platform. It also happens to have software support to be used as a PC display wired and wirelessly. Wirelessly this is pretty straightforward: you simply do not want to wirelessly stream your display to ANYTHING that isn’t locked out from public access. That is a big duh.
For wired display your mileage may vary a bit more, but it’s very likely not trivial to use the device as a HMD without going through the device, just technically. It definitely seems like a disproportionate amount of rage, though, considering that a) there are plenty of alternatives for “dumb” HMDs, and b) Meta is famously subsidizing the crap out of the Quest (which is, again, the point of this thread), so it’s a bit weird to be screamy mad about them not engineering a way to use it while it’s turned off as a simple HMD.
That is so far above and beyond the original reason people were mad about it’s absurd. It no longer is “Oculus backed down into not having its own exclusive store purchases”, it no longer is “Meta backed down on not forcing to link the Quest with Facebook accounts”, it is now “Meta should let me use its heavily subsidized device without ever interacting with its OS to repurpose it as a cheap HMD for a different device”. Not only are they not alone in doing that (Sony is only now allowing the PSVR 2 being used on PC, and that requires an additional purchase), but it’s so above and beyond of a fringe use case it warrants exactly zero anger. Go buy a device that… you know, doesn’t have an Android OS and a SoC in it. What are you mad at Meta about?
And for the record, I do NOT like Meta at all. I actively avoid most of their products any time I can. If I have to interact with anything Meta in my browser I put it on a Firefox container with nothing else. I actively believe they should be split up. They are a big part of a larger dynamic around social media eroding the very concept of liberal democratic statehood.
But also… that’s enough to get mad at them? Like, I don’t need to make up additional, random, factually incorrect, entirely unreasonable entitled customer whiney crap to be mad about. There is plenty of reasonable stuff that doesn’t make me sound like ranting lunatic on the Internet, and if they want to sell me VR hardware at half price or whatever I feel no need to do mental gymnastics to avoid it. I will ride that train and suckle on that teat for as long as good old Zuck wants to give me cheap hardware. Believe it or not, it’s entirely possible to hold those two stances at the same time.