Nobody on the other side is listening. Their response to this will be a national abortion ban and a federal database to track women’s menstrual cycles. They’re just trying not to talk about it during the election. People who believe they’re saving children from being murdered cannot be reasoned with. They are infinitely motivated and can never be trusted.
That is the most nihilistic and ignorant statement I’ve ever heard in my life tbh
You’re generalizing hundreds of thousands of people and essentially saying “my vote doesn’t matter”
I’m saying this not to be a dick, but because I care about my species - you sound like you’re in a very negative headspace and I’m not sure that’s going to be very valuable for you for much longer. You’re generalizing hundreds of thousands of people to one stereotype and assuming that any and all labor towards educating or advocating isn’t worth it.
Fuck that. Defeatist bullshit is for the defeated, and last I checked, battle is still going. I sincerely hope you are only affected by and not perpetuating defeatist logic into the global population.
That is the most nihilistic and ignorant statement I’ve ever heard in my life tbh
Then read better. My argument is that literally zero pro-life people will be swayed by this data. Their response will be that children are still being murdered, so they should move to for a national ban. The train you’re talking your feelings about my comment rather than anything of substance is that you know I’m right. This is opposite of nihilism - these people must be beaten , conclusively, at the ballot box specifically because they cannot be convinced, and the information environment in the US is too toxic for that to substantially change. Good news - pro lifers are a minority and can be beaten this way. But winning requires actually having some understanding of reality.
I guarantee if you educate their children in schools ahead of time, teenage rebellion will encourage more states to become (over time, as older generations fade) more pro-choice
Guaran-fucking-tee it. Yes that involves legislature and voting, but yes it does mean you can sway parents via education of at least their family and/or friends.
He said, specifically, people who already have it firmly established in their belief system that abortion is child murder will almost entirely be unswayed by data showing that the current bans aren’t effective enough at preventing abortion. They only see it as meaning “the current bans aren’t strict enough, and in order to prevent child murder, there needs to be a full nationwide ban”.
These people aren’t just uneducated on biology and human reproduction (even though that applies to most of them). They for the most part understand that a fetus isn’t actually a person in the way a newborn/child is. But that doesn’t affect them because the belief is entirely emotional, not scientific – people have a fundamental, irrational moral belief that an unviable fetus is worth more than a living human being. How exactly do you prove that a fetus isn’t part of their vague and subjective concept of what a “person” is, if they already won’t take biological and psychological evidence as proof? And, following that, do you expect to be able to convince someone that child murder (in their eyes) isn’t bad?
I get your reasoning that surrounding them with people who believe actually rational things, and who refuse to tolerate irrational beliefs like “abortion is child murder”, will pressure them to also start accepting those things, but that misses the point of what the person you’re replying to said. He said that data like the one in the post won’t change their mind – and, imo, it still applies when considering how it might affect the beliefs of others since it’s not a matter of effectiveness, rather a matter of emotion; a fundamental belief that parents and doctors who go through with abortions are child murderers and bad people. Mature people are just bound to eventually realize that abortion isn’t at all even close to comparable to murder, if they have basic knowledge of reproductive biology, and immature people are bound to stick with whatever beliefs they had since they were a child, most often anti-choice in a conservative society.
It’s something that changes peoples’ minds on drugs, but not abortion. One of the most common insane things is conservative people going to a clinic to get an abortion (or get their kid an abortion), the same people who take part in and sometimes even organize the protests against places that offer abortion services, and get the abortion all while insulting the other people in the clinic and saying how they’re evil people who should be ashamed of themselves. They literally can’t see the hypocrisy in it, they have an ever-present belief that they’re the exception, that their abortion is the only moral abortion. Even when you confront them with the fact that many of the other people getting abortions have similar or the same reasons, they just have this innate visceral reaction to the fact that you’re comparing them (or their actions) to her (or her actions). Out of the dozens of cases of this I’ve heard of, only like 2 of them had someone that changed their mind eventually. And this is the absolute most extreme scenario that one could see an anti-choicer being confronted with in order to change their mind.
I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that it’s way up mostly in states that border states that make it entirely illegal.
But it’s up WAY more there than its down elsewhere.
Because women are a hell of a lot less likely to carry a fetus to term if they know they might die if they do.
Say it FUCKING LOUDER
Nobody on the other side is listening. Their response to this will be a national abortion ban and a federal database to track women’s menstrual cycles. They’re just trying not to talk about it during the election. People who believe they’re saving children from being murdered cannot be reasoned with. They are infinitely motivated and can never be trusted.
That is the most nihilistic and ignorant statement I’ve ever heard in my life tbh
You’re generalizing hundreds of thousands of people and essentially saying “my vote doesn’t matter”
I’m saying this not to be a dick, but because I care about my species - you sound like you’re in a very negative headspace and I’m not sure that’s going to be very valuable for you for much longer. You’re generalizing hundreds of thousands of people to one stereotype and assuming that any and all labor towards educating or advocating isn’t worth it.
Fuck that. Defeatist bullshit is for the defeated, and last I checked, battle is still going. I sincerely hope you are only affected by and not perpetuating defeatist logic into the global population.
Then read better. My argument is that literally zero pro-life people will be swayed by this data. Their response will be that children are still being murdered, so they should move to for a national ban. The train you’re talking your feelings about my comment rather than anything of substance is that you know I’m right. This is opposite of nihilism - these people must be beaten , conclusively, at the ballot box specifically because they cannot be convinced, and the information environment in the US is too toxic for that to substantially change. Good news - pro lifers are a minority and can be beaten this way. But winning requires actually having some understanding of reality.
I guarantee if you educate their children in schools ahead of time, teenage rebellion will encourage more states to become (over time, as older generations fade) more pro-choice
Guaran-fucking-tee it. Yes that involves legislature and voting, but yes it does mean you can sway parents via education of at least their family and/or friends.
He said, specifically, people who already have it firmly established in their belief system that abortion is child murder will almost entirely be unswayed by data showing that the current bans aren’t effective enough at preventing abortion. They only see it as meaning “the current bans aren’t strict enough, and in order to prevent child murder, there needs to be a full nationwide ban”.
These people aren’t just uneducated on biology and human reproduction (even though that applies to most of them). They for the most part understand that a fetus isn’t actually a person in the way a newborn/child is. But that doesn’t affect them because the belief is entirely emotional, not scientific – people have a fundamental, irrational moral belief that an unviable fetus is worth more than a living human being. How exactly do you prove that a fetus isn’t part of their vague and subjective concept of what a “person” is, if they already won’t take biological and psychological evidence as proof? And, following that, do you expect to be able to convince someone that child murder (in their eyes) isn’t bad?
I get your reasoning that surrounding them with people who believe actually rational things, and who refuse to tolerate irrational beliefs like “abortion is child murder”, will pressure them to also start accepting those things, but that misses the point of what the person you’re replying to said. He said that data like the one in the post won’t change their mind – and, imo, it still applies when considering how it might affect the beliefs of others since it’s not a matter of effectiveness, rather a matter of emotion; a fundamental belief that parents and doctors who go through with abortions are child murderers and bad people. Mature people are just bound to eventually realize that abortion isn’t at all even close to comparable to murder, if they have basic knowledge of reproductive biology, and immature people are bound to stick with whatever beliefs they had since they were a child, most often anti-choice in a conservative society.
It’s something that changes peoples’ minds on drugs, but not abortion. One of the most common insane things is conservative people going to a clinic to get an abortion (or get their kid an abortion), the same people who take part in and sometimes even organize the protests against places that offer abortion services, and get the abortion all while insulting the other people in the clinic and saying how they’re evil people who should be ashamed of themselves. They literally can’t see the hypocrisy in it, they have an ever-present belief that they’re the exception, that their abortion is the only moral abortion. Even when you confront them with the fact that many of the other people getting abortions have similar or the same reasons, they just have this innate visceral reaction to the fact that you’re comparing them (or their actions) to her (or her actions). Out of the dozens of cases of this I’ve heard of, only like 2 of them had someone that changed their mind eventually. And this is the absolute most extreme scenario that one could see an anti-choicer being confronted with in order to change their mind.
This is why I’ve added abortion access funds to my charitable giving portfolio. Especially ones in border states like Virginia and DC.
I wish I could find a way to host travelers or forward pills but those programs are understandably kept really on the downlow.