While I feel we mostly are in agreement, I have a problem with the verbiage you use. Specifically the idea that the desired outcome is to force the population at large to “obey” protesters.
While no one should be forced to “obey” a protest, the disruption itself is often necessary to make the issues visible and impossible to ignore. It’s not about the right to be heard and obeyed, but about ensuring that the issues at hand cannot be easily dismissed or overlooked. Disruption, when done with purpose, has historically been a critical tool for marginalized groups to bring about the changes that polite appeals often fail to achieve.
Yes, but the point is that being disruptive is often going against the rules. So, having rules to control when protests can happen is a bit of a misnomer.
The question is whether the punishment will match the crime. Protesting before 5pm, youre at risk of a $50 fine and an apology letter to the class you disrupted. Or, you will be kicked out of university costing you your chosen career and the amount you’ve paid thus far.
Protests should be disruptive. The university has to try and minimise the disruption to normal activity. At the same time, the univeraity shoukd want to foster free tjought and dissemination of ideas, peacefully, even if taboo or against current accepted norms of thought. The protestors need to disrupt normal activity. The protestors are also students that pay the university, so pay their bils. The university also has other educational, financial and hr responsibility. Its a balance for both.
While universities have a duty to maintain order and educate, they also have a responsibility to be spaces where free thought can challenge existing norms. Disruption, though uncomfortable, often serves as the catalyst for meaningful dialogue and progress. If protests were only allowed to occur within strict confines, they might lose their power to inspire the kind of reflection and change that has historically made educational institutions breeding grounds for progress.
Balancing the need for order with the need for protest is tricky, but history shows that sometimes, it’s the disruptions that push us all forward. In my opinion, those (often powerful) institutions should be tempering their response to these disruptions; rather than asking their student body to temper their actions.
There is no greater opportunity for the exploration and development of radical thought than by allowing students to be a part of that future history (should they choose to).
I think you make a good point. I approach things from my libertarian-leaning background, so my focus is usually on negative rights and “don’t tread on me”. However, the real world is complicated and so local application of the non-aggression principle is in practice often insufficient. I still insist that preventing disruption does not infringe on the right to free speech, but I will concede that sometimes a reasonable level of disruption is necessary to achieve just ends.
Of course as soon as a non-zero limit is considered acceptable, the limit becomes a matter of opinion and pushing the limit is incentivized. I prefer absolutes, but I guess there’s no escape from the need for good judgement.
Edit: I also want to say that I really appreciate your thoughtful comments.
You’ve made some really good points and I’ll be thinking on them in the days to come.
I don’t have much else to add, but I do want to say that I really appreciate the honest and nuanced discussion here.
At the end of the day, we don’t always have to always agree on every specific detail and these kinds of discussions allow us to explore our biases and will shape our collective responses. And that is good for the community as a whole…
While I feel we mostly are in agreement, I have a problem with the verbiage you use. Specifically the idea that the desired outcome is to force the population at large to “obey” protesters.
While no one should be forced to “obey” a protest, the disruption itself is often necessary to make the issues visible and impossible to ignore. It’s not about the right to be heard and obeyed, but about ensuring that the issues at hand cannot be easily dismissed or overlooked. Disruption, when done with purpose, has historically been a critical tool for marginalized groups to bring about the changes that polite appeals often fail to achieve.
Yes, but the point is that being disruptive is often going against the rules. So, having rules to control when protests can happen is a bit of a misnomer.
The question is whether the punishment will match the crime. Protesting before 5pm, youre at risk of a $50 fine and an apology letter to the class you disrupted. Or, you will be kicked out of university costing you your chosen career and the amount you’ve paid thus far.
Protests should be disruptive. The university has to try and minimise the disruption to normal activity. At the same time, the univeraity shoukd want to foster free tjought and dissemination of ideas, peacefully, even if taboo or against current accepted norms of thought. The protestors need to disrupt normal activity. The protestors are also students that pay the university, so pay their bils. The university also has other educational, financial and hr responsibility. Its a balance for both.
While universities have a duty to maintain order and educate, they also have a responsibility to be spaces where free thought can challenge existing norms. Disruption, though uncomfortable, often serves as the catalyst for meaningful dialogue and progress. If protests were only allowed to occur within strict confines, they might lose their power to inspire the kind of reflection and change that has historically made educational institutions breeding grounds for progress.
Balancing the need for order with the need for protest is tricky, but history shows that sometimes, it’s the disruptions that push us all forward. In my opinion, those (often powerful) institutions should be tempering their response to these disruptions; rather than asking their student body to temper their actions.
There is no greater opportunity for the exploration and development of radical thought than by allowing students to be a part of that future history (should they choose to).
I think you make a good point. I approach things from my libertarian-leaning background, so my focus is usually on negative rights and “don’t tread on me”. However, the real world is complicated and so local application of the non-aggression principle is in practice often insufficient. I still insist that preventing disruption does not infringe on the right to free speech, but I will concede that sometimes a reasonable level of disruption is necessary to achieve just ends.
Of course as soon as a non-zero limit is considered acceptable, the limit becomes a matter of opinion and pushing the limit is incentivized. I prefer absolutes, but I guess there’s no escape from the need for good judgement.
Edit: I also want to say that I really appreciate your thoughtful comments.
You’ve made some really good points and I’ll be thinking on them in the days to come.
I don’t have much else to add, but I do want to say that I really appreciate the honest and nuanced discussion here.
At the end of the day, we don’t always have to always agree on every specific detail and these kinds of discussions allow us to explore our biases and will shape our collective responses. And that is good for the community as a whole…