• @[email protected]
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      -314 months ago

      I just woke up this morning to the news that six hostages had been found dead in a tunnel in Gaza, cause of death multiple gunshot wounds at close range.

      I struggle to find sympathy for Palestine after reading a story like that.

      • @PugJesusOPM
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        374 months ago

        Hamas deserve no sympathy - but most Palestinians are just people, like the Israelis, living under a regime that heavily peddles dehumanizing propaganda. If we had no sympathy for the Israelis because of the Palestinians intentionally killed by their hands, we’d be going down the same route that’s currently locking the two sides into a fucking pointless race towards genocide, that Israel seems likely to ‘win’.

        • @[email protected]M
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          14 months ago

          It’s a bit more complicated than ‘if you’re not hamas you’re automatically innocent’

          Majority of Gaza has supported Hamas for decades and will likely continue to do so.

          • @PugJesusOPM
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            54 months ago

            In the same vein, the majority of Israelis have supported the occupation and genocide of Palestine, and will continue to do so.

            It’s not about being ‘innocent’. That’s how these blood feuds perpetuate themselves. We have to accept that, going forward, mere tribalist support for one atrocity or another is not enough to continue pursuing this pointless blood feud. We couldn’t in-good-conscience hang every Nazi after WW2, and Nazi civilians were far more deserving of the noose than the civilian populations of Gaza or Israel.

            We cannot justify the murder of Israeli or Gazan civilians under the guise that they hold hate in their hearts or support a shitty side in this shitty conflict. We must narrow those who deserve retribution to the actual criminals, not the propagandized and struggling masses.

            • @[email protected]M
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              24 months ago

              I think what the ICC is doing is good—calling for the arrest of both leaders. Neither are budging though.

          • @[email protected]
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            274 months ago

            It’s cool, I’m not your dad. I’m more speaking to the message than you, cause you’re just a name. I’m speaking to a bigoted, myopic message on a platform that I use. You can come or go.

            • @[email protected]
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              -184 months ago

              I’m also over hearing people make excuses for mass murderers. Hamas are the government of Gaza, after all, this logic isn’t applied to other governments vs their own people.

                • @[email protected]
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                  -134 months ago

                  I’m not the one getting self righteous about a country whose government has vowed to exterminate the Jewish state.

                  Surely you’re aware of what “from the river to the sea” would entail?

                  • @[email protected]
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                    64 months ago

                    It would entail people of more than one religion living together and sharing a nation as equals. The horror!

              • @[email protected]
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                44 months ago

                Most people here don’t call on Ukraine to indiscriminately kill Russians. It’s the same logic.

      • @[email protected]
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        174 months ago

        Should foreigners lose sympathy for your people as a whole, if a group whose members hailed from it do something horrible? Its not like everyday people in Palestine have much choice about what goes on there.

        • Cadeillac
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          44 months ago

          What, like storm the capital?

        • @[email protected]
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          -144 months ago

          Ironically enough, the group that seems to be doing the most to free Palestine from the rule of Hamas is the Israeli government.

          And quite frankly, I’m sceptical of the claim Palestine is suffering under a dictatorship going against the will of the people, from what I’ve seen they have a lot of support from the population.

          • @PugJesusOPM
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            194 months ago

            Ironically enough, the group that seems to be doing the most to free Palestine from the rule of Hamas is the Israeli government.

            Man, Israel has spent years propping up Hamas.

            • @Glytch
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              104 months ago

              Not just propping up, getting them into power in the first place. Israel manipulated the elections in Gaza to ensure that Hamas came to power so that they’d be able to frame their fight as being against extremists instead of the more reasonable who had been opposing Hamas (the name escapes me at the moment).

              • @PugJesusOPM
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                124 months ago

                Fatah. Fatah agreed to a two-state solution and peaceful negotiation, and the Israeli prime minister got assassinated by far-right Zionist loons for his trouble. Ever since, every attempt by Fatah at good-faith negotiation has ended up as demands from Israel for a demonstration of fealty, followed by Israel not following through on its obligations anyway. For obvious reasons, this severely damaged Fatah’s credibility.

                Also, Fatah is either hilariously or sickeningly corrupt, depending on whether you feel like laughing or crying on the given day. Hamas used that to worm their way in too, though now they’re no less corrupt.

              • @PugJesusOPM
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                74 months ago

                Not sure that setting up an enemy for the explicit purpose of using them to harm civilians, and then harming civilians in the process of taking them down, is really freeing anybody. As far as Israel’s actions more than a week or two past October 7 go, I’m disinclined to give them any sort of ‘credit’ for anything except the slaughter they’re overseeing.

      • @kaffiene
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        74 months ago

        What does killing 40 thousand people, mostly innocent, do for your sympathies? Raping and torturing people in detention. For that matter, detention without charge? Turning off water to 2 million people? Preventing food and medical aid? No, sorry - the IDF claimed that a bad thing was done by Hamas… more genocide is clearly called for. You’re allowed to think whatever you like online, as you’ve asserted.

          • @kaffiene
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            44 months ago

            in which case, my apologies for jumping to conclusions

      • @ngwoo
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        44 months ago

        Palestine didn’t kill those hostages, Hamas did. Hamas deserves to die, innocents do not, and killing innocents to reach the bad guy is not justified

        • @[email protected]
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          34 months ago

          I respect the sentiment, but Hamas uses innocent civilians as human shields all the time. Doing what you say would allow them to attack with impunity.

          • @Olgratin_Magmatoe
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            -14 months ago

            If you can’t defend yourself without doing war crimes, you’re not defending yourself. You’re just using it as an excuse for war crimes.

              • @Olgratin_Magmatoe
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                04 months ago

                Bombing hospitals, schools, residential buildings, refugee camps, and aid workers are war crimes. Isreal has done all of the above and more.

                • @[email protected]M
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                  24 months ago

                  so has Hamas. Every single thing that Israel has done, so too has Hamas.

                  The only difference is one can be held accountable, while the other isn’t.

      • @[email protected]
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        -54 months ago

        I too find it hard to sympathize with little Hind or the poet Refaat when they murder hostages.

        • @[email protected]
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          -74 months ago

          Yeah, I know, not all Palestinians support Hamas, yada yada, but that’s not how emotions work, is it?

          There are no good guys here, just two awful groups of people, and a bunch of civilians caught in the middle.