Assuming bad faith over everyone who disagrees with you is a first step to fanaticism and vulnerability to external opinion.
Weaponizing tribe mentality to reach your goals is very bad long-term, and makes yourself susceptible to the same trap.
Lemmy, unfortunately, is very prone to that. Remember that time people called here for Biden to step down and were downvoted into oblivion? Where were they when he actually stepped down and everyone started cheering for Harris all of a sudden?
There are valid reasons to NOT vote for the Democratic party in these elections, even if you clearly don’t side with the Republicans.
In American English, the phrase “Bye, Felicia” or “Bye, Felisha” is an informal phrase intended as a dismissive send-off, wherein a person or idea is rendered so unimportant his or her name is reduced to “Felicia.”
The one valid reason not to vote Dem/Repub this cycle has been to not support genocide, which ultimately supports genocide except the voter can dissociate their vote from the outcome. Other than that, I haven’t seen any other valid arguments to vote 3rd party, particularly when looking at what those candidates would do if they won. Holding the presidency with all of Congress against you means you can’t get anything done, so it’s a waste of 4 years.
The argument of bad faith you’ve made sounds awfully like the beginning of a slippery slope argument.
One important and vocalized point is to hold Democrats accountable for their actions. This isn’t limited to genocide.
Because as things stand, Dems can get away with anything as long as they are marginally less terrible than Republicans. And as the goalposts move every time, situation gets worse and worse.
Voting third party might force Democrats to actually implement changes they propose in order to attract more third party voters to ultimately win the election.
In general I agree that voting can be used to hold candidates accountable for their policies. In this case, I still don’t see how holding the less terrible of the two accountable isn’t tantamount to helping the worse. No one knows why you voted 3rd party, just that you did. If the outcome is that Repubs win, the simplest answer is that most people prefer hard right policies, which is opposite the goals of most 3rd parties (except perhaps libertarianism).
Less terrible of the two is something I think most people would follow unless indoctrinated to think the more viable option is worse. Having constant conversations about holding democrats accountable with nary a peep about how Repubs are worse leans into this viewpoint. At best it’s bad optics. At worst it’s intentional to secure a far right win.
You can always be vocal about why you didn’t vote Democrat. Voting does not mean you are restricted from saying who you voted for, protesting their decisions, and organizing.
“Less terrible of the two” is a path to gradually degrade the rights and quality of life for everyone.
If Dems are not forced to change, we won’t see much improvement. For as long as they’re not pressured by anything but literal fascism, they’re better off serving their sponsors than their own electorate.
A fairly small percentage of Democratic voters vocally saying “fuck you” is enough to force Dems to either change and finally deliver on their promises or lose. Let’s hope they’ll be able to do the former.
So what I meant was that I had learned “today” (yesterday) that people still say dumb shit that makes no sense when pressed against reality, regardless of the fact that there been enough proof for them to know it’s incorrect.
The underlying point that was made was that while knowing everything you said was wrong, and saying it anyway, illustrates the bad-faith in your message.
Do you seriously think that some grassroots movement of Stein/West supporters somehow have things right and correct while everyone else is just too stupid to understand? Come on man. Have you not noticed that NEITHER of them give two shits about anything three years out of every four?
In fact, NO Green Party candidate does a fucking thing between elections to bring this change they program you to demand.
My message is clearly in good faith, and you just try to take it down by stating that I “know it’s wrong”.
No, it is not wrong.
Notice how I didn’t state my support for any third party in particular. I do not believe they can change the game, nor am I blind to imagine their candidates have any sort of influence.
What I do say is that Democrats should lose their electorate when they don’t deliver on their promises - or else they don’t have to do it, really.
Under those circumstances, voting for a third party allows to keep them accountable, while not giving your vote straight to Republicans, either.
One of the mouth breathing imbeciles who will determine our future based on a confluence of distraction, idiocy, and geography might read it and think they too have a choice!
Or worse yet enough people might get the idea that their vote is more than just something to throw away. If even 1% of the country grows that way each cycle corporate profits might be threatened at some point!
Believe the people who sobbed their hideous wretched guts out that we had to support Biden! They’re never wrong On PuRpOsE!
Assuming bad faith over anyone who disagrees with you
libs are so cruel and violent
This is what leftist lemmy actually is. Voices of reason being underscored by the very same bad faith assumptions from a “morally superior” position.
All so you can feel better about the fact that people with your moral standing have zero power here while the rest of us actually try to keep this country from going tits up.
Do you honestly think the people you label as libs want genocide?
Assuming bad faith over everyone who disagrees with you is a first step to fanaticism and vulnerability to external opinion.
Weaponizing tribe mentality to reach your goals is very bad long-term, and makes yourself susceptible to the same trap.
Lemmy, unfortunately, is very prone to that. Remember that time people called here for Biden to step down and were downvoted into oblivion? Where were they when he actually stepped down and everyone started cheering for Harris all of a sudden?
There are valid reasons to NOT vote for the Democratic party in these elections, even if you clearly don’t side with the Republicans.
Bye Felicia.
It’s actually spelled Felisha. You should always watch the credits of great works of art.
In American English, the phrase “Bye, Felicia” or “Bye, Felisha” is an informal phrase intended as a dismissive send-off, wherein a person or idea is rendered so unimportant his or her name is reduced to “Felicia.”
Full article.
The one valid reason not to vote Dem/Repub this cycle has been to not support genocide, which ultimately supports genocide except the voter can dissociate their vote from the outcome. Other than that, I haven’t seen any other valid arguments to vote 3rd party, particularly when looking at what those candidates would do if they won. Holding the presidency with all of Congress against you means you can’t get anything done, so it’s a waste of 4 years.
The argument of bad faith you’ve made sounds awfully like the beginning of a slippery slope argument.
One important and vocalized point is to hold Democrats accountable for their actions. This isn’t limited to genocide.
Because as things stand, Dems can get away with anything as long as they are marginally less terrible than Republicans. And as the goalposts move every time, situation gets worse and worse.
Voting third party might force Democrats to actually implement changes they propose in order to attract more third party voters to ultimately win the election.
In general I agree that voting can be used to hold candidates accountable for their policies. In this case, I still don’t see how holding the less terrible of the two accountable isn’t tantamount to helping the worse. No one knows why you voted 3rd party, just that you did. If the outcome is that Repubs win, the simplest answer is that most people prefer hard right policies, which is opposite the goals of most 3rd parties (except perhaps libertarianism).
Less terrible of the two is something I think most people would follow unless indoctrinated to think the more viable option is worse. Having constant conversations about holding democrats accountable with nary a peep about how Repubs are worse leans into this viewpoint. At best it’s bad optics. At worst it’s intentional to secure a far right win.
You can always be vocal about why you didn’t vote Democrat. Voting does not mean you are restricted from saying who you voted for, protesting their decisions, and organizing.
“Less terrible of the two” is a path to gradually degrade the rights and quality of life for everyone.
If Dems are not forced to change, we won’t see much improvement. For as long as they’re not pressured by anything but literal fascism, they’re better off serving their sponsors than their own electorate.
A fairly small percentage of Democratic voters vocally saying “fuck you” is enough to force Dems to either change and finally deliver on their promises or lose. Let’s hope they’ll be able to do the former.
TIL people still think this ignorant crap actually makes sense.
Please elaborate
So what I meant was that I had learned “today” (yesterday) that people still say dumb shit that makes no sense when pressed against reality, regardless of the fact that there been enough proof for them to know it’s incorrect.
The underlying point that was made was that while knowing everything you said was wrong, and saying it anyway, illustrates the bad-faith in your message.
Do you seriously think that some grassroots movement of Stein/West supporters somehow have things right and correct while everyone else is just too stupid to understand? Come on man. Have you not noticed that NEITHER of them give two shits about anything three years out of every four?
In fact, NO Green Party candidate does a fucking thing between elections to bring this change they program you to demand.
But everyone else is wrong, right?
My message is clearly in good faith, and you just try to take it down by stating that I “know it’s wrong”.
No, it is not wrong.
Notice how I didn’t state my support for any third party in particular. I do not believe they can change the game, nor am I blind to imagine their candidates have any sort of influence.
What I do say is that Democrats should lose their electorate when they don’t deliver on their promises - or else they don’t have to do it, really.
Under those circumstances, voting for a third party allows to keep them accountable, while not giving your vote straight to Republicans, either.
Go Team Harris!
Noooo you aren’t allowed to say that!
One of the mouth breathing imbeciles who will determine our future based on a confluence of distraction, idiocy, and geography might read it and think they too have a choice!
Or worse yet enough people might get the idea that their vote is more than just something to throw away. If even 1% of the country grows that way each cycle corporate profits might be threatened at some point!
Believe the people who sobbed their hideous wretched guts out that we had to support Biden! They’re never wrong On PuRpOsE!
You sound like you get bullied a lot and you don’t really understand why everyone is ok with it
You sound like someone with no communication skills or earnest opinions.
Haha this, libs are so cruel and violent that they can’t possible imagine someone taking a principled stance on genocide.
These were the same libs decrying the “violence” of broken windows and looting during the George Floyd riots.
This is what leftist lemmy actually is. Voices of reason being underscored by the very same bad faith assumptions from a “morally superior” position.
All so you can feel better about the fact that people with your moral standing have zero power here while the rest of us actually try to keep this country from going tits up.
Do you honestly think the people you label as libs want genocide?