Were you drafted? If so what was your MOS? Where did you serve? This men’s rights whataboutism would’ve gotten you laughed out of my Corps.
Stolen valor by Munchausen proxy is what this shit is. JFC
My grandfather got his citizenship from serving in Korea and went back to 'nam.
Joined up with his drafted son for a full fucking tour.
Saw a lot of bullshit. Hated the fuckin draft because it was leveraged by the wealthy and the Military Industrial Complex to feed a war machine in a needless and unpopular war.
He’d have frog marched you out of the bar he heard this rape equivalency bullshit in and if you wouldn’t stop he’d have probably laid you out on the deck like a rug.
I fucking hope you take this rhetoric to a veterans group and see how seriously they take you.
Hell no I wasn’t in the military. My dad made it very clear that there was no honor in service anymore and I would just be a tool exploited by the military industrial complex. My uncle burned his purple heart in front of the Capitol and he was right to do it. All this anecdotal shit is irrelevant to the point. You’re attacking me because you can’t attack the point.
My point stands. I made that clear with all of the refutations of your argument in my original post. You cherry picked one instance and responded with dead soldier rhetoric.
You’re speaking on two topics you do not have expertise on, and keep doubling down. I don’t know if it’s hurt ego or if you genuinely believe the false equivalency of “there once was a draft” and a woman’s right to body autonomy.
Take the L and move on. Or keep arguing. I got all day.
Don’t get confused. I’m in favor of a woman’s right to bodily autonomy. I just take umbrage on people shitting on the sacrifice made by soldiers who were drafted to make a false comparison about gender rights.
In regards to our relative expertise, how many abortions have you had and when were you drafted?
I love what this man is saying except for this part. It drives me crazy every time I’ve heard it. Has nobody heard of the fucking draft? I would say forcing someone to go die in a war is the ultimate legislating of a person’s body.
That’s you comparing the two. It’s a false equivalency. It’s also ignorant.
Hell no I wasn’t in the military.
That’s also you, not knowing what the fuck you’re talking about.
I just take umbrage on people shitting on the sacrifice made by soldiers who were drafted to make a false comparison about gender rights.
That’s you again taking umbrage with people who conflate abortion rights and the draft. Do you remember that first quote I posted? Here in case you forgot you also said the below.
The right here is literally called bodily autonomy…
I’m not shitting on the sacrifice of dead conscripts. I’m shitting on your dated men’s rights talking point. I guess you don’t really have the self awareness to understand just how much of a dickhead you sound like when you conflate the two. Nor do you understand how triggering or offensive your comparisons are.
Let me get the big crayons out for you.
Female bodied people, who were born with ovaries have been oppressed by patriarchal power structures since there have been power structures. Laws have been written to their disadvantage to keep them disenfranchised in society at large for a very very long time.
Conscriptions have happened for as long as there has been war. However, the conscription would have only affected the able bodied men, who reside within the borders of the belligerents involved in said war. The draft, America’s conscription program, has not been necessary for most; if not all of your life. Unless you’re 80 years old. Are you over 80 years old? You might be as your argument tracks with that generation of American men.
Let’s limit the scope of my argument to something you just might be able to comprehend. Let’s look at the history of the United States. There have been roughly combined 40 years of war in which a male bodied citizen would have been drafted in the roughly two and a half centuries it has existed. However marital rape wasn’t outlawed in all states until roughly it’s 200th year.
Do you get it? Abortion and the draft are two very different concepts in American History. If you want to do deaths, more women have died in child birth than there have been soldiers. Women’s body autonomy is again imperiled in the United States. There hasn’t been a draft in over 40 years. The two cannot be compared. They are NOT equivalent. Not even close.
In regards to our relative expertise, how many abortions have you had and when were you drafted?
I’m a third generation Marine. I am telling you that you are wrong. I have been an EMT. I have stabilized two women for ectopic pregnancies and one teenage girl who didn’t have access to medical intervention for an unwanted pregnancy. She took matters into her own hands. It took 3 units of blood to stabilize her on the way to the hospital. That is a lot of blood loss.
You need to understand, you’re wrong. Suggestions that the draft and abortion are equivalent is wrong. It’s not a zero sum game. Two things can be bad. Abortion rights and the plight of women and trans and intersex people in this country don’t lessen the tragedy of drafted soldiers who didn’t want to die for this country. Those women who died without legal and safe abortions didn’t do so happily.
Suggesting that they are the same is absolutely wrong. They are not the same full stop. You are an ignorant contrarian little cunt for suggesting it. I will spend hours refuting your argument and point it out each time you say it.
You are the one shitting on a soldier’s sacrifice when you compare his death to theirs. He was empowered to go AWOL or get a deferment, or transfer to a non combat role. How do you suggest that someone could escape an unwanted pregnancy?
Shame on you. If you’d like to educate yourself you might be interested in the resources below.
Congratulations on constructing the largest straw man I have ever seen. Almost nothing you said was relevant to the discussion.
That’s also you, not knowing what the fuck you’re talking about.
We are talking about the draft, not simple military service. That is something you have exactly as much experience in as I do. None. But you will be happy to know that people can learn about things without personally experiencing them and can have educated opinions about these things.
That’s what this all breaks down to. Opinion.
You think you are factually correct and I think I am factually correct. We will just have to agree to disagree.
Your streak of taking one line out of a litany of corrections is going strong. Congratulations on that. It’s almost like that’s how someone could form a strawman. By cherry picking the least they can from another’s argument without providing further context. Where have I seen that before?
You haven’t addressed anything I brought up. Like how I do have direct experience with the results of women not having autonomy over their bodies. How I was raised in a family that has a history of the draft. How I’ve lived a very similar experience to that of someone who was drafted.
We are talking about the draft, not simple military service.
No, we are talking about a false equivalency that you made. You can move the goal posts all you want. I have direct lived experience with the results of abortions being illegal. You do not. I have lived experience in the military and was raised by a drafted Vietnam Vet. You were not. You have a problem with equating things that are not the same.
It’s not a straw man when I’m directly quoting your argument.
Others in this thread have pointed out just how wrong you are.
Your ego won’t let you give this up and apologize. I guess I can understand that. But others need to understand just how wrong you are. People need to understand just how wrong you were when you said
Has nobody heard of the fucking draft? I would say forcing someone to go die in a war is the ultimate legislating of a person’s body.
You won’t address that directly though, because you can’t. It’s indefensible. Almost like you say contrarian and inflammatory things on the internet for fun.
I have said nothing to apologize for. I took one line out because it was the only line that wasn’t obfuscation or misdirection away from the point. Nothing you said besides that is worth addressing because it is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter that you and I were both raised by men who were drafted. It doesn’t matter that we both have had women close to us struggle to get an abortion. Lived experience is anecdotal evidence that is not proof in itself. It is simply one data point. You and I disagree and that’s okay. You can believe I am wrong, and I can believe you are wrong. It’s okay for people to have different options, right?
No it matters that you will not address the bullshit men’s rights talking point you’re dancing around. The Draft is in no way shape or form an equivalency to the centuries of legislation against women’s bodies.
My lived experience is what I’m using to support my refutation of that. The Wikipedia links and sources I’ve posted support my refutation of that.
It’s not an opinion. It’s an internationally historic legacy of rape and pain vs a really shitty time for poor young men in America. Your attempt to appeal to my good nature doesn’t change that fact.
Internalize what I’ve said. Know you were wrong and apologize to any of the people you might’ve triggered with your bullshit false equivalency.
Were you drafted? If so what was your MOS? Where did you serve? This men’s rights whataboutism would’ve gotten you laughed out of my Corps.
Stolen valor by Munchausen proxy is what this shit is. JFC
My grandfather got his citizenship from serving in Korea and went back to 'nam. Joined up with his drafted son for a full fucking tour.
Saw a lot of bullshit. Hated the fuckin draft because it was leveraged by the wealthy and the Military Industrial Complex to feed a war machine in a needless and unpopular war.
He’d have frog marched you out of the bar he heard this rape equivalency bullshit in and if you wouldn’t stop he’d have probably laid you out on the deck like a rug.
I fucking hope you take this rhetoric to a veterans group and see how seriously they take you.
Hell no I wasn’t in the military. My dad made it very clear that there was no honor in service anymore and I would just be a tool exploited by the military industrial complex. My uncle burned his purple heart in front of the Capitol and he was right to do it. All this anecdotal shit is irrelevant to the point. You’re attacking me because you can’t attack the point.
My point stands. I made that clear with all of the refutations of your argument in my original post. You cherry picked one instance and responded with dead soldier rhetoric.
You’re speaking on two topics you do not have expertise on, and keep doubling down. I don’t know if it’s hurt ego or if you genuinely believe the false equivalency of “there once was a draft” and a woman’s right to body autonomy.
Take the L and move on. Or keep arguing. I got all day.
Don’t get confused. I’m in favor of a woman’s right to bodily autonomy. I just take umbrage on people shitting on the sacrifice made by soldiers who were drafted to make a false comparison about gender rights.
In regards to our relative expertise, how many abortions have you had and when were you drafted?
Hahahahaha
Let’s see
That’s you comparing the two. It’s a false equivalency. It’s also ignorant.
That’s also you, not knowing what the fuck you’re talking about.
That’s you again taking umbrage with people who conflate abortion rights and the draft. Do you remember that first quote I posted? Here in case you forgot you also said the below.
I’m not shitting on the sacrifice of dead conscripts. I’m shitting on your dated men’s rights talking point. I guess you don’t really have the self awareness to understand just how much of a dickhead you sound like when you conflate the two. Nor do you understand how triggering or offensive your comparisons are.
Let me get the big crayons out for you.
Female bodied people, who were born with ovaries have been oppressed by patriarchal power structures since there have been power structures. Laws have been written to their disadvantage to keep them disenfranchised in society at large for a very very long time.
Conscriptions have happened for as long as there has been war. However, the conscription would have only affected the able bodied men, who reside within the borders of the belligerents involved in said war. The draft, America’s conscription program, has not been necessary for most; if not all of your life. Unless you’re 80 years old. Are you over 80 years old? You might be as your argument tracks with that generation of American men.
Let’s limit the scope of my argument to something you just might be able to comprehend. Let’s look at the history of the United States. There have been roughly combined 40 years of war in which a male bodied citizen would have been drafted in the roughly two and a half centuries it has existed. However marital rape wasn’t outlawed in all states until roughly it’s 200th year.
Do you get it? Abortion and the draft are two very different concepts in American History. If you want to do deaths, more women have died in child birth than there have been soldiers. Women’s body autonomy is again imperiled in the United States. There hasn’t been a draft in over 40 years. The two cannot be compared. They are NOT equivalent. Not even close.
I’m a third generation Marine. I am telling you that you are wrong. I have been an EMT. I have stabilized two women for ectopic pregnancies and one teenage girl who didn’t have access to medical intervention for an unwanted pregnancy. She took matters into her own hands. It took 3 units of blood to stabilize her on the way to the hospital. That is a lot of blood loss.
You need to understand, you’re wrong. Suggestions that the draft and abortion are equivalent is wrong. It’s not a zero sum game. Two things can be bad. Abortion rights and the plight of women and trans and intersex people in this country don’t lessen the tragedy of drafted soldiers who didn’t want to die for this country. Those women who died without legal and safe abortions didn’t do so happily.
Suggesting that they are the same is absolutely wrong. They are not the same full stop. You are an ignorant contrarian little cunt for suggesting it. I will spend hours refuting your argument and point it out each time you say it.
You are the one shitting on a soldier’s sacrifice when you compare his death to theirs. He was empowered to go AWOL or get a deferment, or transfer to a non combat role. How do you suggest that someone could escape an unwanted pregnancy?
Shame on you. If you’d like to educate yourself you might be interested in the resources below.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_suffrage
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coverture
Congratulations on constructing the largest straw man I have ever seen. Almost nothing you said was relevant to the discussion.
We are talking about the draft, not simple military service. That is something you have exactly as much experience in as I do. None. But you will be happy to know that people can learn about things without personally experiencing them and can have educated opinions about these things.
That’s what this all breaks down to. Opinion.
You think you are factually correct and I think I am factually correct. We will just have to agree to disagree.
Your streak of taking one line out of a litany of corrections is going strong. Congratulations on that. It’s almost like that’s how someone could form a strawman. By cherry picking the least they can from another’s argument without providing further context. Where have I seen that before?
https://lemmy.world/comment/13108577
You haven’t addressed anything I brought up. Like how I do have direct experience with the results of women not having autonomy over their bodies. How I was raised in a family that has a history of the draft. How I’ve lived a very similar experience to that of someone who was drafted.
No, we are talking about a false equivalency that you made. You can move the goal posts all you want. I have direct lived experience with the results of abortions being illegal. You do not. I have lived experience in the military and was raised by a drafted Vietnam Vet. You were not. You have a problem with equating things that are not the same.
It’s not a straw man when I’m directly quoting your argument.
Others in this thread have pointed out just how wrong you are.
Your ego won’t let you give this up and apologize. I guess I can understand that. But others need to understand just how wrong you are. People need to understand just how wrong you were when you said
You won’t address that directly though, because you can’t. It’s indefensible. Almost like you say contrarian and inflammatory things on the internet for fun.
I have said nothing to apologize for. I took one line out because it was the only line that wasn’t obfuscation or misdirection away from the point. Nothing you said besides that is worth addressing because it is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter that you and I were both raised by men who were drafted. It doesn’t matter that we both have had women close to us struggle to get an abortion. Lived experience is anecdotal evidence that is not proof in itself. It is simply one data point. You and I disagree and that’s okay. You can believe I am wrong, and I can believe you are wrong. It’s okay for people to have different options, right?
No it matters that you will not address the bullshit men’s rights talking point you’re dancing around. The Draft is in no way shape or form an equivalency to the centuries of legislation against women’s bodies.
My lived experience is what I’m using to support my refutation of that. The Wikipedia links and sources I’ve posted support my refutation of that.
It’s not an opinion. It’s an internationally historic legacy of rape and pain vs a really shitty time for poor young men in America. Your attempt to appeal to my good nature doesn’t change that fact.
Internalize what I’ve said. Know you were wrong and apologize to any of the people you might’ve triggered with your bullshit false equivalency.