• @Ultraviolet
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    2721 days ago

    It’s the trolley problem again. This time, you have 3 tracks and 2 switches. The trolley is headed towards 5 people, one switch sends it to 1 person, and the other switch would send it to 0 people, but it’s broken. Voting third party is pulling the broken switch, knowing the 5 people will die but you’ve shifted the responsibility from yourself to whoever was supposed to fix the switch.

    • @[email protected]
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      20 days ago

      I like your analogy. Let me expand.

      This same situation happens every day. For years now, 1 person has died every day. Nobody pulls the broken lever, but if people started pulling it, it would start working. For the first couple days or weeks, 5 people would die each time, but eventually we would be able to get the train on a safe track.

      • @[email protected]
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        620 days ago

        The whole post is an example of a propaganda technique where you keep repeating one thing over and over until it becomes a default thing where people don’t even question the logic.

        The ones capable of refuting it feel tired because of the sheer number of posts while the vulnerable ones get affected.

        Today both sides “feel” that the use of this propaganda is fair game cuz the other side is already doing it.

    • @[email protected]
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      020 days ago

      I really like your take on this. So how is the switch going to get fixed, when the only time anyone pays attention to the fact that it’s broken, is when lives are on the line?

    • @Cleggory
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      -1421 days ago

      Why do neoliberals bring up the trolley problem as if it is some settled debate among scholars that there is one clear possible answer?

      • @Ultraviolet
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        2521 days ago

        I’m not a neoliberal, I’m a socialist. I’m just not an idiot who will give a fascist free rein just because his opponent has the same shitty foreign policy as every politician in the whole fucking country has. There is a difference between the status-quo level of bad and catastrophic.

        • @Rhoeri
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          320 days ago

          Excellently put!

        • @Cleggory
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          20 days ago

          Harris supporters on Lemmy have called for me to be put in a concentration camp.

          *Harris supporters with violence fantasies: https://lemm.ee/post/45695948/15722267

          Your fears of fascism are ignorant of the capacity that Democrats exhibit.

          • @ameancow
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            20 days ago

            Harris supporters on Lemmy have called for me to be put in a concentration camp.

            Yah, I’ll take “Things that didn’t happen” for a thousand, Alex. Let me guess, they did the “you’re going to be the most _____ person in the camps” joke and you took offense to the harsh, practical truth of it, so rather than reconsider whatever performative BS you were trying to use to justify voting against a clear and present danger, you decided to do exactly what the right does, and spin natural consequences and hurt feelings to make yourself a victim.

            edit: I was absolutely right, 100% accurate. Lets just ignore the clowns, shit’s too serious out there to fuck around with this performative BS.

          • @[email protected]
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            320 days ago

            Harris supporters on Lemmy have called for me to be put in a concentration camp.

            Lol no they haven’t.

              • @[email protected]
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                420 days ago

                “I hope I get to watch you suffer the consequences of your actions since you doomed me too”

                “That’s a death threat!”

                Sure buddy.

                • @Cleggory
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                  20 days ago

                  Lazy quote changing gaslighting.

                  I hope people like you are the first people put in the camps

                  I will look forward to the order to launch on your nation

                  Mode removed some of your fellow Harris supporter’s threats, but not before you all upvoted and clapped.

              • @ameancow
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                120 days ago

                Are you SERIOUSLY so messed up in the head that you take this as a call for YOU PERSONALLY to be put in a camp? Are you really that dense? We don’t want you then. Go right, join them, they will embrace your need to be a victim and will supply you with a thousand other ways to cry how unfair people’s jokes and rhetoric are.

      • @[email protected]
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        20 days ago

        Edit: I think my point was too subtle. What I meant was that it seems like lefties will bicker and infight rather than focusing on the bigger enemy first, until that enemy manages to seize power and it’s too late. We’ll be “united” in that we’ll be executed together.


        Sometimes, I wonder if a Trump victory would be the only way to get the various leftist factions to stop arguing and stand together, side by side, united in the fact that fascists don’t care what flavour of ideological opposition they’re executing.

        Who gives a shit about whether the Trolley Problem is settled - it’s about your answer: Which option do you endorse?

        • @lemonmelon
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          1020 days ago

          We had a Trump victory once. Spoiler: it didn’t unite the factions.

        • @WrenFeathersM
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          620 days ago

          It didn’t in 2016. I wouldn’t expect it to be different now.

            • @lurklurk
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              420 days ago

              Oh he did, people just don’t pay attention

              • @[email protected]
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                020 days ago

                Look, my point is that he’ll probably be even worse this time around if he gets the chance. I’m painting a (hopefully exaggerated) image in an attempt to convince people that the left should unite on the big issues and push for a point where actually progressive parties are more than a spoiler in a fucked up system.

            • @WrenFeathersM
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              20 days ago

              Yeah. But the writing on the wall was legible enough then to know what we were in for. It’s now in bright flashing neon, and they still won’t budge.

              • @[email protected]
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                620 days ago

                I think my point was made poorly: I don’t think they’ll work together. He has gone fully mask off now, I worry he might pull a Reichstagsbrand 2 and start eliminating his opponents. And no matter how fractured we may be, no matter how we see our differences, at the end of they day we’re all leftists and to him, that’ll be enough to lump us all together as enemies.

                I worry that the only way the leftists will unite is by being thrown into the same mass graves.

        • @[email protected]
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          20 days ago

          As a center-leftist supporting third party candidates (Go Claudia de la Cruz!), no a Trump victory won’t unite the left, because a Trump victory won’t make me like the Democrats more than I do now. If the Democrats want my vote, they will have to start appealing to me as a voter (stop supporting Israels war, reduce military spending, etc)- but the Democrats don’t have these policies and a Trump victory won’t change that.

          Tl;dr a Trump victory changes nothing for my stance as a third party supporter

          • @[email protected]
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            20 days ago

            You missed my point. If Trump manages to pull off what he literally and explicitly endorses, we’ll land in the same grave together and be united that way. He has praised Hitler. You know, the guy who used a fire to suspend civil rights and persecute political opponents.

            Support progressive politics in local elections, but right now, damage control is the strategic option.

            Put differently, is “protect civil rights” not an issue on your ballot?

        • @[email protected]
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          220 days ago

          Some people say this out of desperation about the french left : what if we had five years of Le Pen, wouldn’t that consolidate the left? Well, perhaps. Should we try something else first? Probably

          • @[email protected]
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            120 days ago

            Yeah, that was actually my point, but it was phrased poorly: Trump talks about sending the military against citizens. If he gets his way, we’ll stand sideby side - in front of the firing squads.

      • @[email protected]
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        21 days ago

        The trolley problem isn’t “settled debate” for the same reasons that Kamala vs Trump isn’t “settled debate”.

        The point of the trolley problem and why it’s analogous is that it’s coming up fast and you must choose to either pull that lever or not. Whichever choice you make, that’s the moral character you’ve chosen to exhibit.

        • @Cleggory
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          -521 days ago

          What is the moral character of someone incapable of questioning the validity of orphan crushing trolleys?