Sorry for the long replies. I’m interested in trying to help if you are too. But I’m not trying to over extend here either. Let me know if you want to stop. I know it probably doesn’t seem like it but I’m putting probably 20 min in on each of these just trying to cut them down to a “normal” size… I could literally write a book on this!
A couple things: Idk what your scores are but basically the higher you get on the CAT-Q (2nd test) the higher the score should be on the RAADS-R (1st test). IIRC, the highest score ever formally recorded by someone allistic (not autistic) on the RAADS-R was 64. The other thing is, a lot of people don’t know how either that what they’re doing is “different” from allistic people, or they don’t know they’re doing it. For example, I wondered I was autistic for years and did test probably 5-6 times before I met someone autistic that was just like me and it all “clicked”. For this reason I would recommend doing the test with someone that was around you when you were very young if you can. I will also give some examples below of some of those things that don’t stand out right away if that’s not possible.
That said, we have a couple possibilities.
You simply may not be autistic. There are conditions that could look similar to autism enough to make you wonder if you are or “show up” on the test but maybe not be very high on it. cPTSD is a common one if you lived in a long-term environment when you were not physically or emotionally safe. This is a strong possibility because given that you have ADHD, there’s an extremely high chance you either grew up poor or had some sort of scarcity issues (one or more of love, food, shelter, etc)–this is believed to be the leading cause of ADHD. Remember that an estimated 80% of autistic people have ADHD, but that can be from the fact that life is pretty shit when you’re autistic and don’t know it! Less likely but possible could also be OCD or even dyslexia, both of which are SO MUCH bigger than people think.
(This one happened to me, so I’ll bring it up): You may have learned the “right” answers to these so long ago you think it’s the real you’s opinions. Here’s a couple of late diagnosed things a lot of us go through:
Maybe you know how to make eye contact… but do you actually like it? Like not that it’s useful because you can see how people respond, or that you get treated better, but is it something you genuinely want to do?
Did you line up your toys as a kid? Did other kids not follow the rules well when you played, and you tried to teach them?
What’s the most important personality trait? Is it authenticity?
How about special interests? Do you have any hobbies that you’re really good at? This is another one that high masking autistic will get wrong sometimes because maybe you don’t think you are that special at something. But do you ever watch an public figure/celebrity/expert even maybe do the thing “wrong”? Like if you’re a mechanic special interest are you going to be upset that someone didn’t look up torque specs, or if you program… and they either built code in a stupid way or formatted it with the wrong bracket style… these sorts of things. If you even notice this sort of stuff, that’s probably not the ADHD.
Do you feel like you can look right through other people and maybe know more about them than they know about themselves?
The sentiment: “Why isn’t everyone else as blunt as me?”
Sensory things: like turning down the radio when you go to park. Or clothing tags suck. Or that little nub on the small toe in your sock that always sits wrong. Is polyester the worst? Do you have a specific utensil preference, like only liking the small spoon or a specific heavy steak knife? These are some common “real life” low-support-needs experiences.
yes! i had some ocd symptoms as a kid that are barely perceviable now. i scored in the 50s in the test.
i’m trying to figure this out because i relate to the experience, but i also understand there are common symptoms shared by these conditions, and they are sometimes comorbid. i feel closer to adhd but who knows.
I hate eye contact, and yes authenticity ranks pretty high up to me.i crave deeper relationships beyond the stupid thank you and good morning pleasantries.
my special interests come and go. i have bouts when i have no interest and it will feel like life is empty, only for me to suddently find something im obssessed with and it will be the only thing i want to do for a long while. it does bother me when i’m confronted with doing it “wrong”.
i feel like i cant look through people that easily unless they are hiding behind common courtesy and norms? i dunno if i made myself clear on this one.
oh and i have no sensory issues although i’m more practical in the sense of prioritizing comfort over looks? like i notice utensils but it doesnt bother me.
i appreciate the writeup, even if it isnt helping me make sense of it that much.
is there stuff that can be done if i turn out to be autistic? there is no cure afaik right?
First off, so sorry I missed your message… no idea what happened. I was like “I wonder what happened to that person on lemmy” and came looking and your reply was marked as “seen”. The good news is, I have read up on OCD and dyslexia in case one of them resonated with you, so I’m feeling fresh lol.
Secondly, what sorts of OCD behaviors did you do as a child? That seems to be the next path to explore.
Thirdly, when I say “look through people”, here’s an example: my boss will come up with the intention to have me hop on a project. I will often know he wants this just based on how he opens the conversation (occasionally not). Then, I will know exactly what he expects and he will think about it and be like “oh we should do this” when I knew full well he was going to say this (this is more frequent). I don’t know if this is more clear but hopefully that’s clearer. I don’t mean social cues, which seems to be more like what you’re describing. I’m autistic, so I’m bad at them. If they’re properly described, I can do them fine but they’re typically not intuitive.
Forth, I match nearly all your answers for what it’s worth. Do with that what you will. I’m specifically AuDHD (pronounced ow-D-H-D, which means ADHD and Autistic too, so that could be some reasons like switching special interests. Also for psychology, my longest special interest, I did not discover I liked it until I was in my late 20s. Before that I would switch. I still switch on others (cars, computers, gaming, LEGO and some others) and have moved on from others (Barney as a kid, art, BMX) but for some reason psychology “stuck”. Maybe it’s getting older, idk.
Fifth, I have a couple more questions I thought of after.
How do you feel about idioms? Like are they intuitive or did you need them explained the first time? Do you find them interesting or kinda whatever?
What contributes more to society: creativity or collaboration?
Have you always felt or known you’re different than the “normal (popular) kids”
Do you understand flirting / can you tell when someone likes you?
Did you need to teach yourself to smile at some point?
Lastly, to answer your question, autism is a neurological condition that is decided genetically from conception. There is no cure, but you could argue that there is nothing to cure (and this is key) in the right environment. There’s a good argument to be made that it’s a disability when we’re forced to be who we’re not and the world is not build for us. And obviously, there are high support needs people that would probably always be considered disabled, but that’s a LONG chat for another time. THAT SAID: There is stuff to that can be done. That is also a long chat, but if you are autistic (or whatever, this applies to other stuff too) and you don’t know, then you by definition have a LOT to learn about yourself. Truth is you will probably figure it out in time (think the old man that hates change always tinkers in the shed… probably autistic AF and never knew, but he’s in his zone and happy) but getting a name for things can fast track you decades and help you find people that “get it” and can turn out to be amazing friends for it. Most people in this boat find the experience transformative and hugely beneficial. I’ll be honest. It’s hard, but it’s worth it.
Hope this helps and that you had a good week. Look forward to hearing back from you!
i did the if you dont do this tic the world is gonna explode, and the mind tics. and i liked psychology at some point but life sadly threw me off this path.
i can “look through people” if im paying attention, or if im closer to that person
by idioms do you mean languages? english is not my first language, i dont get what you mean.
i think both creativity and collaboration play a role.
yes
i can tell quite easily but i cant do it as well
i dont remember, but id say probably not.
old man that hates change always tinkers in the shed
change is good a 2/3 of the time though? but hey, strangely me.
ive been getting some well deserved rest. hope you are well too.
Hey there, so the first example does seem fairly OCD–like the real kind. A lot of people reference it wrongly so I wanted to double check.
Idioms are phrases that don’t make literal sense. For example in the USA, saying that someone is “all that and a bag of chips” means they are exceptional or really cool. Or that a task was a “piece of cake” means that task was easy.
So to be frank I have dug into each nugget of what you said (I cataloged it, because of course I did lol). And you have every sign of being autistic. I made a list of highlights:
I have a friend that identifies with these symptoms. What could the root cause be, if any? - Masking in social situations
Not knowing one’s self (original post about masking)
Has ADHD (you mentioned)
Hates eye contact (I asked)
Authenticity is a highly rated trait in relationships (I asked)
Does not like small talk like thank you/good morning (You mentioned)
Deep-dives interests for a long time (You mentioned): “for a long time” is important here. ASD/AuDHD typically does them for a long time. “Pure” ADHD does them usually less than a week, often to the point where they forget to eat or sleep.
No sensory issues but does prefer comfortable clothes over appearance (asked/told): I would argue that’s sensory-driven (comfort is your sense of touch), but may be nothing to be fair.
Notices traits of utensils but does not bother them (asked): Even noticing them is not typical of allistic people. Could be nothing too, but this is potential sensory thing #2.
Feels different from others (asked): Super common for ADHD and ASD
OCD symptoms as a child: Common for ASD kids too. As many as 38% of ASD people have OCD as well, compared to 7% of the general population.
Seeing through people’s intentions when trying (asked): Fairly common, especially of the PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidant) profile of ASD. I will write about this a bit at the bottom.
Can see flirting but does not know how to flirt (asked): Not knowing how to flirt is super common for ASD
Resonates with the example of “old man that hates change always tinkers in the shed”(you mentioned): This is something that resonates frequently with ASD people because of the predictability and being ok with solo activity.
Before I go on: The PDA profile of ASD is basically that being met with demands will trigger anxiety/fight-or-flight (demands could be anything like: questions, plans, decisions, instructions, time constraints and more). The difference is, all those are fine if you consent. Example, We have had this chat and you consented to the parts you answered. But what if your significant other needed you to run to the store while they were making dinner with no notice. Would it be a little annoying or would you total dread it/it would give you anxiety? PDA people also have higher than average social skills when they need to. Example, can you almost magically tell when someone is trying to sell you something or wants something from you? You may be PDA. PDA is huge and has literal books on it, but I credit it with the reason I often considered being autistic (sounds like you considered this before, yes?), but when I would look into it I “wasn’t”.
Ok all that said: if it’s not ASD or some alternate profile (what used to be called Asperger’s Syndrome, or the PDA profile), I am totally stumped. You show so many markers it’s wild. I have no idea how you scored so low on the test. The test is only 80% accurate, so 1 in 5 can’t be diagnosed by it so maybe that’s why. But you have had OCD symptoms as a kid (OCD has 38% comorbidity with ASD) and currently identify as ADHD (up to 80% comorbidity with ASD). Not liking change and being ADHD simply don’t fit together as well. And you survived all these long ass write-ups haha, but that could be the novelty-seeking to be fair! I’m not trying to tell you what you are but IMHO you 110% are autistic and other stuff is helping to hide it. Side note, if me telling you I think you’re autistic is repulsive (this includes earlier in the conversation, like when you said the tests were no different than past tests), PLEASE look into the PDA profile. That is exactly how it would feel. I had a buddy I knew was autistic and it took me 4 months of patience to get him to believe me.
I would love to hear your thoughts.
P.s. I’m glad you’ve caught up on some rest. Diagnosis aside, rest is healthy for everyone and self care is so so important!
Sorry for the long replies. I’m interested in trying to help if you are too. But I’m not trying to over extend here either. Let me know if you want to stop. I know it probably doesn’t seem like it but I’m putting probably 20 min in on each of these just trying to cut them down to a “normal” size… I could literally write a book on this!
A couple things: Idk what your scores are but basically the higher you get on the CAT-Q (2nd test) the higher the score should be on the RAADS-R (1st test). IIRC, the highest score ever formally recorded by someone allistic (not autistic) on the RAADS-R was 64. The other thing is, a lot of people don’t know how either that what they’re doing is “different” from allistic people, or they don’t know they’re doing it. For example, I wondered I was autistic for years and did test probably 5-6 times before I met someone autistic that was just like me and it all “clicked”. For this reason I would recommend doing the test with someone that was around you when you were very young if you can. I will also give some examples below of some of those things that don’t stand out right away if that’s not possible.
That said, we have a couple possibilities.
You simply may not be autistic. There are conditions that could look similar to autism enough to make you wonder if you are or “show up” on the test but maybe not be very high on it. cPTSD is a common one if you lived in a long-term environment when you were not physically or emotionally safe. This is a strong possibility because given that you have ADHD, there’s an extremely high chance you either grew up poor or had some sort of scarcity issues (one or more of love, food, shelter, etc)–this is believed to be the leading cause of ADHD. Remember that an estimated 80% of autistic people have ADHD, but that can be from the fact that life is pretty shit when you’re autistic and don’t know it! Less likely but possible could also be OCD or even dyslexia, both of which are SO MUCH bigger than people think.
(This one happened to me, so I’ll bring it up): You may have learned the “right” answers to these so long ago you think it’s the real you’s opinions. Here’s a couple of late diagnosed things a lot of us go through:
yes! i had some ocd symptoms as a kid that are barely perceviable now. i scored in the 50s in the test.
i’m trying to figure this out because i relate to the experience, but i also understand there are common symptoms shared by these conditions, and they are sometimes comorbid. i feel closer to adhd but who knows.
I hate eye contact, and yes authenticity ranks pretty high up to me.i crave deeper relationships beyond the stupid thank you and good morning pleasantries.
my special interests come and go. i have bouts when i have no interest and it will feel like life is empty, only for me to suddently find something im obssessed with and it will be the only thing i want to do for a long while. it does bother me when i’m confronted with doing it “wrong”.
i feel like i cant look through people that easily unless they are hiding behind common courtesy and norms? i dunno if i made myself clear on this one.
oh and i have no sensory issues although i’m more practical in the sense of prioritizing comfort over looks? like i notice utensils but it doesnt bother me.
i appreciate the writeup, even if it isnt helping me make sense of it that much.
is there stuff that can be done if i turn out to be autistic? there is no cure afaik right?
First off, so sorry I missed your message… no idea what happened. I was like “I wonder what happened to that person on lemmy” and came looking and your reply was marked as “seen”. The good news is, I have read up on OCD and dyslexia in case one of them resonated with you, so I’m feeling fresh lol.
Secondly, what sorts of OCD behaviors did you do as a child? That seems to be the next path to explore.
Thirdly, when I say “look through people”, here’s an example: my boss will come up with the intention to have me hop on a project. I will often know he wants this just based on how he opens the conversation (occasionally not). Then, I will know exactly what he expects and he will think about it and be like “oh we should do this” when I knew full well he was going to say this (this is more frequent). I don’t know if this is more clear but hopefully that’s clearer. I don’t mean social cues, which seems to be more like what you’re describing. I’m autistic, so I’m bad at them. If they’re properly described, I can do them fine but they’re typically not intuitive.
Forth, I match nearly all your answers for what it’s worth. Do with that what you will. I’m specifically AuDHD (pronounced ow-D-H-D, which means ADHD and Autistic too, so that could be some reasons like switching special interests. Also for psychology, my longest special interest, I did not discover I liked it until I was in my late 20s. Before that I would switch. I still switch on others (cars, computers, gaming, LEGO and some others) and have moved on from others (Barney as a kid, art, BMX) but for some reason psychology “stuck”. Maybe it’s getting older, idk.
Fifth, I have a couple more questions I thought of after.
Lastly, to answer your question, autism is a neurological condition that is decided genetically from conception. There is no cure, but you could argue that there is nothing to cure (and this is key) in the right environment. There’s a good argument to be made that it’s a disability when we’re forced to be who we’re not and the world is not build for us. And obviously, there are high support needs people that would probably always be considered disabled, but that’s a LONG chat for another time. THAT SAID: There is stuff to that can be done. That is also a long chat, but if you are autistic (or whatever, this applies to other stuff too) and you don’t know, then you by definition have a LOT to learn about yourself. Truth is you will probably figure it out in time (think the old man that hates change always tinkers in the shed… probably autistic AF and never knew, but he’s in his zone and happy) but getting a name for things can fast track you decades and help you find people that “get it” and can turn out to be amazing friends for it. Most people in this boat find the experience transformative and hugely beneficial. I’ll be honest. It’s hard, but it’s worth it.
Hope this helps and that you had a good week. Look forward to hearing back from you!
i did the if you dont do this tic the world is gonna explode, and the mind tics. and i liked psychology at some point but life sadly threw me off this path.
i can “look through people” if im paying attention, or if im closer to that person
by idioms do you mean languages? english is not my first language, i dont get what you mean.
i think both creativity and collaboration play a role.
yes
i can tell quite easily but i cant do it as well
i dont remember, but id say probably not.
change is good a 2/3 of the time though? but hey, strangely me.
ive been getting some well deserved rest. hope you are well too.
Hey there, so the first example does seem fairly OCD–like the real kind. A lot of people reference it wrongly so I wanted to double check.
Idioms are phrases that don’t make literal sense. For example in the USA, saying that someone is “all that and a bag of chips” means they are exceptional or really cool. Or that a task was a “piece of cake” means that task was easy.
So to be frank I have dug into each nugget of what you said (I cataloged it, because of course I did lol). And you have every sign of being autistic. I made a list of highlights:
I have a friend that identifies with these symptoms. What could the root cause be, if any? - Masking in social situations
Not knowing one’s self (original post about masking)
Has ADHD (you mentioned)
Hates eye contact (I asked)
Authenticity is a highly rated trait in relationships (I asked)
Does not like small talk like thank you/good morning (You mentioned)
Deep-dives interests for a long time (You mentioned): “for a long time” is important here. ASD/AuDHD typically does them for a long time. “Pure” ADHD does them usually less than a week, often to the point where they forget to eat or sleep.
No sensory issues but does prefer comfortable clothes over appearance (asked/told): I would argue that’s sensory-driven (comfort is your sense of touch), but may be nothing to be fair.
Notices traits of utensils but does not bother them (asked): Even noticing them is not typical of allistic people. Could be nothing too, but this is potential sensory thing #2.
Feels different from others (asked): Super common for ADHD and ASD
OCD symptoms as a child: Common for ASD kids too. As many as 38% of ASD people have OCD as well, compared to 7% of the general population.
Seeing through people’s intentions when trying (asked): Fairly common, especially of the PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidant) profile of ASD. I will write about this a bit at the bottom.
Can see flirting but does not know how to flirt (asked): Not knowing how to flirt is super common for ASD
Resonates with the example of “old man that hates change always tinkers in the shed”(you mentioned): This is something that resonates frequently with ASD people because of the predictability and being ok with solo activity.
Before I go on: The PDA profile of ASD is basically that being met with demands will trigger anxiety/fight-or-flight (demands could be anything like: questions, plans, decisions, instructions, time constraints and more). The difference is, all those are fine if you consent. Example, We have had this chat and you consented to the parts you answered. But what if your significant other needed you to run to the store while they were making dinner with no notice. Would it be a little annoying or would you total dread it/it would give you anxiety? PDA people also have higher than average social skills when they need to. Example, can you almost magically tell when someone is trying to sell you something or wants something from you? You may be PDA. PDA is huge and has literal books on it, but I credit it with the reason I often considered being autistic (sounds like you considered this before, yes?), but when I would look into it I “wasn’t”.
Ok all that said: if it’s not ASD or some alternate profile (what used to be called Asperger’s Syndrome, or the PDA profile), I am totally stumped. You show so many markers it’s wild. I have no idea how you scored so low on the test. The test is only 80% accurate, so 1 in 5 can’t be diagnosed by it so maybe that’s why. But you have had OCD symptoms as a kid (OCD has 38% comorbidity with ASD) and currently identify as ADHD (up to 80% comorbidity with ASD). Not liking change and being ADHD simply don’t fit together as well. And you survived all these long ass write-ups haha, but that could be the novelty-seeking to be fair! I’m not trying to tell you what you are but IMHO you 110% are autistic and other stuff is helping to hide it. Side note, if me telling you I think you’re autistic is repulsive (this includes earlier in the conversation, like when you said the tests were no different than past tests), PLEASE look into the PDA profile. That is exactly how it would feel. I had a buddy I knew was autistic and it took me 4 months of patience to get him to believe me.
I would love to hear your thoughts.
P.s. I’m glad you’ve caught up on some rest. Diagnosis aside, rest is healthy for everyone and self care is so so important!