Terrible, no-good take. It’s because of this attitude, totally ungrounded in the political science, that outside the USA we now have to put up with your bad decisions, once again.
Sorry to be so crude but this really p*sses me off. Your side is now losing in almost every single demographic group, the trend is as clear as day. If it were to follow your terrible advice (which fortunately it won’t) the Democrats would be permanently out of power and the USA would become a de-facto one-party state. You can’t pretend that these people don’t exist or that they’re subhuman. You have to sully your virtue and talk to them and find some compromises. If not for yourself then for the sake of the rest of us.
Bruh just flat out no. The reason we lost is 100% the opposite of that. The reason we lost is because biden and harris both tried to be more moderate to attract republicans. Instead of actually doing anything useful and fixing the world, they both focused on sucking off netanyahu instead of free healthcare and ubi.
They failed the base that elected them and tried to court the enemy. Courting republicans is a waste of time unless your goal is to make things worse. The only way to deal with these fucking vegetables is to treat them like theyre in the past. Ignore republican talking points. Cringe when your republican cousin talks. If you see a trump flag, stop, point and laugh.
Shame these fucks and make sure they understand that they will no longer be taken seriously. The adults are talking and MAGA has chosen to sit at the little kids table.
Fucking shun every single one of them. They no longer are part of our society
I’ll try a different tack. Because after all, we seem to want the same result.
In my analysis (which, as someone who follows this pretty closely, I maintain is much better supported by the evidence than yours), I have to suck it up and talk to people I don’t like and maybe even accept policies I don’t like.
In yours, you get to feel great about being in the right, with no need to question any of your prejudices much less make any compromises.
If you were a neutral observer watching this conversation, who would you believe?
But thats the thing. There are no neutral observers. I dont remember if you said you were european or if that was someone else, but living here its pretty obvious to everyone that there arent any undecideds. Were not trying to convince someone who knows nothing about it, because there isnt anyone who knows nothing about it. Even if there was, at this point youd have to be an uneducated as a maga voter to hold that opinion, so my point still stands. If you are not willing to make an effort to educate yourself, you do not deserve to be taken seriously by anyone that is actually working towards a solution.
Compromises are how we got here, id rather not allow our party to shift even farther to the right. In fact, that literally makes the problem worse because instead of one person arguing for attrocities, we have one person arguing for attrocities and one person saying “well, we should at least hear them out”
Edit: questioning myself is how i got to these beliefs, but maybe you are right. Maybe i should reconsider whether to seriously engage with people that want to hang me for not being white, and i should try to convince those that want to execute my aunt for being trans that maybe thats not the way to go.
This is called a counsel of despair. Or nihilism. With this attitude you are going to achieve precisely nothing - or, rather, you are going to make things worse by ceding control of your government to your avowed enemies.
In a democracy, there is no way forward except compromise. And the alternative to democracy is even worse. Much worse.
There is clearly some miscommunication here. You seem to be under the idea that I have given up, or surrendered. Its quite to the contrary. You are proposing that we court evil in the hopes of making progress. That has been the democrat mission for over a decade now. We are in a worse position than we ever could have imagined a decade ago. That policy has failed, hands down. There is no arguing that, it is an absolute failure. You cannot be more appealing to a republican than a republican. Compromise is tangent. When your opponent is arguing for the abolishment of abortion with no exceptions, what can you possibly gain for compromising with them? You are seriously going to give an inch to people to literally just want to make women suffer? Who want to instill religion into our government and schools? Who wants to deport members of our community and entire families back into countries where they will be killed within a year? Youre arguing for compromise as if this isnt life and death from a stance that has been tested and failed. SO MANY people have already died due to these policies of giving ground to republicans.
I’m hearing lots to vituperation and, well, anger but no actual plans about how to solve any of this. If you’re advocating a bloody revolution, then fine, but that will be the end of this conversation. Otherwise you have no choice but to engage in the democratic process. And that will mean a choice between compromising with your fellow citizens or losing elections. There is no alternative. If you keep asking for what they don’t want, and they are in the majority, then you will keep losing. It’s that simple.
If anything, Democrats would do better. Trump didn’t give a fuck, was a huge asshole, and won.
If Democrats were fair in their vicious scathing of what’s terrible about Republican policies, and used it as a tool in telling the truth clearly, they’d do great.
Republicans pull in a consistent number of votes every election because they have the hateful moron brigade as a consistent voting bloc. Dems win when there is higher turnout because they motivate people to show up, and lose when there is lower turnout, but they sure as shit aren’t appealing to the hate brigade.
Trying to be reasonable and polite with Republicans like Liz Cheney is what took the wind out of the sails of the Harris campaign. They did the fucking appease everyone bland bullshit and lost. That is what you are saying is the right thing to do.
Your theory is just a theory, and a weak one. The evidence suggests that the election was mainly just a backlash against inflation and immigration, as has happened across the world to parties of all stripes. Not much could have been done to avert the outcome. But it is also clear that a bunch of voters were pissed off by what they perceived as Democrat excesses on cultural issues, and apparently many of those people were in swing states.
More generally: “just turn out the base” is usually a losing strategy in democratic politics. For a simple reason: the cost of turning out your own base is that you will fire up the opposing base and turn them out too. To be sure of winning an election in democracy, you will need to get your hands dirty and persuade people. In practice that will mean tacking towards the center and making compromises.
I voted for Harris as a way to vote against Trump and Republicans like I do every fucking election despite Dems constsntly shooting themselves in the foot every election where Obama didn’t run. You know, the two elections where they promoted actual hope and progressive change instead of pandering to the fucking centrists and did extremely well and the only time I actually wanted them to win.
Of course the Republicans obstructed the shit out of that attempt at change and the country learned nothing.
Good. That gives you the right to whine (which you seem pretty good at).
The Obama presidency produced some decent outcomes. In democracy you never get everything you want. I agree that the bank-bailout moment was a terrible wasted opportunity.
Bailout was under Bush. Obama could have reversed course a few months later when he was sworn in, but I’m pretty sure that would have caused an even worse economic disaster.
Terrible, no-good take. It’s because of this attitude, totally ungrounded in the political science, that outside the USA we now have to put up with your bad decisions, once again.
Sorry to be so crude but this really p*sses me off. Your side is now losing in almost every single demographic group, the trend is as clear as day. If it were to follow your terrible advice (which fortunately it won’t) the Democrats would be permanently out of power and the USA would become a de-facto one-party state. You can’t pretend that these people don’t exist or that they’re subhuman. You have to sully your virtue and talk to them and find some compromises. If not for yourself then for the sake of the rest of us.
Bruh just flat out no. The reason we lost is 100% the opposite of that. The reason we lost is because biden and harris both tried to be more moderate to attract republicans. Instead of actually doing anything useful and fixing the world, they both focused on sucking off netanyahu instead of free healthcare and ubi.
They failed the base that elected them and tried to court the enemy. Courting republicans is a waste of time unless your goal is to make things worse. The only way to deal with these fucking vegetables is to treat them like theyre in the past. Ignore republican talking points. Cringe when your republican cousin talks. If you see a trump flag, stop, point and laugh.
Shame these fucks and make sure they understand that they will no longer be taken seriously. The adults are talking and MAGA has chosen to sit at the little kids table.
Fucking shun every single one of them. They no longer are part of our society
I’ll try a different tack. Because after all, we seem to want the same result.
In my analysis (which, as someone who follows this pretty closely, I maintain is much better supported by the evidence than yours), I have to suck it up and talk to people I don’t like and maybe even accept policies I don’t like.
In yours, you get to feel great about being in the right, with no need to question any of your prejudices much less make any compromises.
If you were a neutral observer watching this conversation, who would you believe?
But thats the thing. There are no neutral observers. I dont remember if you said you were european or if that was someone else, but living here its pretty obvious to everyone that there arent any undecideds. Were not trying to convince someone who knows nothing about it, because there isnt anyone who knows nothing about it. Even if there was, at this point youd have to be an uneducated as a maga voter to hold that opinion, so my point still stands. If you are not willing to make an effort to educate yourself, you do not deserve to be taken seriously by anyone that is actually working towards a solution.
Compromises are how we got here, id rather not allow our party to shift even farther to the right. In fact, that literally makes the problem worse because instead of one person arguing for attrocities, we have one person arguing for attrocities and one person saying “well, we should at least hear them out”
Edit: questioning myself is how i got to these beliefs, but maybe you are right. Maybe i should reconsider whether to seriously engage with people that want to hang me for not being white, and i should try to convince those that want to execute my aunt for being trans that maybe thats not the way to go.
This is called a counsel of despair. Or nihilism. With this attitude you are going to achieve precisely nothing - or, rather, you are going to make things worse by ceding control of your government to your avowed enemies.
In a democracy, there is no way forward except compromise. And the alternative to democracy is even worse. Much worse.
There is clearly some miscommunication here. You seem to be under the idea that I have given up, or surrendered. Its quite to the contrary. You are proposing that we court evil in the hopes of making progress. That has been the democrat mission for over a decade now. We are in a worse position than we ever could have imagined a decade ago. That policy has failed, hands down. There is no arguing that, it is an absolute failure. You cannot be more appealing to a republican than a republican. Compromise is tangent. When your opponent is arguing for the abolishment of abortion with no exceptions, what can you possibly gain for compromising with them? You are seriously going to give an inch to people to literally just want to make women suffer? Who want to instill religion into our government and schools? Who wants to deport members of our community and entire families back into countries where they will be killed within a year? Youre arguing for compromise as if this isnt life and death from a stance that has been tested and failed. SO MANY people have already died due to these policies of giving ground to republicans.
I’m hearing lots to vituperation and, well, anger but no actual plans about how to solve any of this. If you’re advocating a bloody revolution, then fine, but that will be the end of this conversation. Otherwise you have no choice but to engage in the democratic process. And that will mean a choice between compromising with your fellow citizens or losing elections. There is no alternative. If you keep asking for what they don’t want, and they are in the majority, then you will keep losing. It’s that simple.
If anything, Democrats would do better. Trump didn’t give a fuck, was a huge asshole, and won.
If Democrats were fair in their vicious scathing of what’s terrible about Republican policies, and used it as a tool in telling the truth clearly, they’d do great.
Maybe once there’s no nazis, civil will work.
Republicans pull in a consistent number of votes every election because they have the hateful moron brigade as a consistent voting bloc. Dems win when there is higher turnout because they motivate people to show up, and lose when there is lower turnout, but they sure as shit aren’t appealing to the hate brigade.
Trying to be reasonable and polite with Republicans like Liz Cheney is what took the wind out of the sails of the Harris campaign. They did the fucking appease everyone bland bullshit and lost. That is what you are saying is the right thing to do.
Your theory is just a theory, and a weak one. The evidence suggests that the election was mainly just a backlash against inflation and immigration, as has happened across the world to parties of all stripes. Not much could have been done to avert the outcome. But it is also clear that a bunch of voters were pissed off by what they perceived as Democrat excesses on cultural issues, and apparently many of those people were in swing states.
More generally: “just turn out the base” is usually a losing strategy in democratic politics. For a simple reason: the cost of turning out your own base is that you will fire up the opposing base and turn them out too. To be sure of winning an election in democracy, you will need to get your hands dirty and persuade people. In practice that will mean tacking towards the center and making compromises.
Found the DNC strategist.
I’m European who votes green. I want the Democrats to win because that is better for the world. If only you did too.
I voted for Harris as a way to vote against Trump and Republicans like I do every fucking election despite Dems constsntly shooting themselves in the foot every election where Obama didn’t run. You know, the two elections where they promoted actual hope and progressive change instead of pandering to the fucking centrists and did extremely well and the only time I actually wanted them to win.
Of course the Republicans obstructed the shit out of that attempt at change and the country learned nothing.
Good. That gives you the right to whine (which you seem pretty good at).
The Obama presidency produced some decent outcomes. In democracy you never get everything you want. I agree that the bank-bailout moment was a terrible wasted opportunity.
Bailout was under Bush. Obama could have reversed course a few months later when he was sworn in, but I’m pretty sure that would have caused an even worse economic disaster.
You are pretty good at being confidently incorrect.
And you at firing off empty zingers.