The Harris/Biden comparison was more valid, although we can’t be sure she would stay that path once in office and with pressure from Congress and public. But at least there was a chance of both of those. Anyone who thought Trump wouldn’t ramp things up or would listen to calls for change…I don’t know what they were thinking. He’s never done that, never been like that. His history as a businessman and as a President for four years is right there to review.
The thing is that Harris could be moved by progressives winning primaries and the 2026 midterms at the very least. There is almost no hope of something similar for trump.
I I genuinely wonder what would change? What’s worse than denying and backing the genocide with weapons, soldiers and money under Biden? What worse could Trump do?
The West Bank, where roughly half of Palestineans live was more or less left alone as one of yhr administrations red lines (also, Iran’s oil/nuclear facilities.)
With trump incoming, it seems Israel feels they have a green light to expand in the West Bank.
Whoever told you that was lying, they’ve been bombing and expanding settlements in the west bank at an unprecedented rate since Oct 7th. They even bombed Bethlehem on Christmas.
Though yes, Israel has done some bombing in West Bank I don’t think anyone who has seriously followed the conflict would say that the actions in the West Bank have been in any way comparable to the scope and devastation in Gaza. (Admittedly, unsure what Tik Tok is saying.)
They were saying they were going to annex the west bank before the election, they are saying they are going to annex the west bank now. There is no difference.
If you honestly don’t understand the difference between saying “Netenyahu must order an annexation” or “our legislators will need to pursue this” and ““I have directed the start of professional work to prepare the necessary infrastructure to apply Israeli sovereignty over Judea and Samaria” well, that’s on you kid.
Israel have been aggressively expanding in the West Bank since October 7, and intensified their campaign at around the same time they started the war with Lebanon. There are no red lines.
You are arguing with absolute liars. It’s like people only thinking this mess accelerated under Biden (who is the most paid politician by AIPAC) is just a coincidence. As if Israel hasn’t been expanding into some of the most important Palestinian cities while the world focuses on Gaza.
It’s the same people who say what can Biden possibly do while funding their military operations. Trump sees the praise Biden is getting from Congress and actually thinks Biden must have been doing something right. Yet, somehow there was a good choice for people who want to see Palestine prosper (Those who pretend that Harris would do better because she doesn’t shout her plans out like some cliché comic book villain).
But let’s call Trump a huge liar and let’s take his word at face value when it’s convenient for us. I’m sure the Democrats who never learn a thing will be excited to lose the next election as well. Obviously, Trump won’t be a good president but Democrats lost because they were seen as slightly less evil but with no charisma.
It’s not us, everyone else is just stupid. - Democrats
Always does not mean “since I started paying attention” but regardless…
Anyway, you’re so close! Let’s tey the socratic method, given that the West Bank has been an Israeli target for years, why do you think the violence has been at such a lower level than Gaza since the rapes and murders of Oct 7th?
And why did that coincidentally change days after the election, with Smoterich now directing “the start of professional work to prepare the necessary infrastructure to apply Israeli sovereignty over Judea and Samaria.”
If you’re ruling out Biden etc, was it just a wild miracle of timing?
Thank god that the Palestinian that got their land stolen and are living like second grade citizen under apartheid are no touch. All thanks to daddy US !. You and I both know the red line is to not bomb their own Israeli settlers, right? They always had the green light… nothing really changed.
If you deny that they’re living under apartheid, the term used by south Africa itself to describe the palestinian situation, then there’s need to discuss any further.
With all respect, I had to chuckle at this as it reminded myself of me, a quarter century-ish ago, when after having watched Colin Powell give his speech to the UN about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, I confidently supported it. Then, a kind socials studies teacher pointed out the retrospectively obvious, just because a government says it, doesn’t make it true. But he did so without making me feel belittled or dumb so I’ll try to pass on the favour.
I’d think of it though like when trump as President says there was massive electoral fraud, when Hungary/Belarus argues for denazifying Ukraine etc. Just because a government is saying something does not make it true.
In the case of South Africa, context is huge, so let me share that with you.
Since actual Apartheid, South Africa’s been ruled for 30 uninterrupted years by the ANC, which wins largely on the basis of being A) Mandela’s party and B) the symbol of anti-colonialism etc. In the last 15 or so years though, progress has pretty much stopped (the stats on indoor plumbing, electricity, youth unemployment etc are heart breaking) and they’ve started bleeding support especially to harder, more populist, vehemently anti white parties (the two main rivals argue for seizing any white farms) on the one side and the technocratic but “whitey” party, the DA on the other side. Coming into this year, the polls and election results were the worst that the ANC has ever suffered, leading to a humiliating, first ever, coalition government with the ANC and the DA.
Amidst this backdrop, Gaza happened. I cannot imagine an easier symbol of the ANC’s anti-colonial roots than lobbying a very anti colonial case at the ICJ. All the benefits of identity politics and symbolism with almost zero cost. Especially when you consider the ANC almost certainly expected they were going to have to form an unpopular coalition government and to avoid burning the country down, would do so with whitey’s colonial party. (And yes, Ramaphosa absolutely touted and campaigned on his government’s cases at the ICJ.)
Edit: Sorry, Ramaphosa is the president of South Africa and leader of the ANC. Also, even without the domestic backdrop, you might consider their BRICS membership and what that entails.
The current issues will end, Biden was at least making noises to get it to stop, Biden was trying to prevent the regional war Iran has been working on, and there were decent indications there would be recovery funding.
Trump indicated none of that and all signs point to encouraging more atrocity
I mean yeah he would be/is, at least until Israel’s genocide is over. There is literally nothing Trump can do (at least while beholden to the public and Congress) in this war that Biden hasn’t already done.
People have been yammering on for many years that ‘America needs a businessman for a leader’ without realizing how fucked that statement is. The idea that business people are always efficient and effective doesn’t even capture what the hell happens normally or even the difference between a business and government.
Also for ‘businessmen’ like Trump who have had numerous bankruptcies, also have an affinity for routinely breaking the law and regulations as a matter of course. This is because major companies ALWAYS have multiple lawsuits and violations investigations going on that they try to delay and delay, because the legal fees and fines and such are all factored into the cost of business. Violate safety regulations? No problem. It is better (and cheaper) to fight the injury lawsuits and occassionally have to pay out than simply to have the regulations fully complied with. Fucked some employees over and violate contract terms on the regular? By the time the lawsuit gets heard it’ll be years and they have gotten all what they wanted and much more, then maybe they can settle out of court for a few peanuts after they exhausted the plaintiff.
Do you realize how batshit insane Trump’s picks for his cabinet are? They are done in large part because he A: Wants to establish dominance over congress by seeing if they contest him, and B: Making them have to WORK and FIGHT to get those picks contested, which may not be successful and will waste tons of time and resources. This is EXACTLY how businesses operate and have been operating for many, many years.
This is why a businessman for a leader is the worst thing ever.
I mean he is to an extent. Everyone is talking like the fascist project in America is finished, but it’s not and there’s no guarantee they’ll be able to complete it. That said it’s mostly Congress doing the heavy lifting here; there are enough sane Republicans that Trump wouldn’t be able to get away with some of the more outrageous stuff.
I would love to see the list of Republicans in Congress whose districts/states WEREN’T carried by pro-Trump zealots and who WOULDN’T lose their seats if they went against Trump.
Hint: it could fit on an index card, double spaced
I mean there were Republicans opposed to one of his appointments (don’t remember who) and you only need four of them to side with the Democrats to get a majority.
So first, I can’t actually find anything about this except Smotrich pushing for annexation so do you have a source that says they’re going to go forward with annexation? Now second, Smotrich started yapping about annexing West Bank settlements (not the whole West Bank; if Israel did that they’d have to give Palestinians rights) literally a day or two after the election, meaning he already had plans for something similar before then. You don’t just wake up and start taking steps towards annexing an occupied territory that’s not how that works.
And yes, believe it or not, the Israelis were not the only people on Earth who didn’t know about the election of their largest ally and presumably gameplanned for either a Harris or trump victory.
The fact Smotrich held back from saying anything until after the election tells you the election mattered in terms of what happens next.
I had someone arguing at me here, with the supreme confidence of the ignorant, that trump and Harris would be the same for Palestineans.
I thought those accounts went dormant after the election. Maybe there’s still some OpenAI credit left on the controller?
They are trying to foment division among trump’s opposition, the disinfo machines never stop until there is a civil war or collapse.
One of those dumb fucks already responded here.
But Id like to think they’re AI instead of just mind numbingly stupid.
The Harris/Biden comparison was more valid, although we can’t be sure she would stay that path once in office and with pressure from Congress and public. But at least there was a chance of both of those. Anyone who thought Trump wouldn’t ramp things up or would listen to calls for change…I don’t know what they were thinking. He’s never done that, never been like that. His history as a businessman and as a President for four years is right there to review.
The thing is that Harris could be moved by progressives winning primaries and the 2026 midterms at the very least. There is almost no hope of something similar for trump.
I I genuinely wonder what would change? What’s worse than denying and backing the genocide with weapons, soldiers and money under Biden? What worse could Trump do?
The West Bank, where roughly half of Palestineans live was more or less left alone as one of yhr administrations red lines (also, Iran’s oil/nuclear facilities.)
With trump incoming, it seems Israel feels they have a green light to expand in the West Bank.
Whoever told you that was lying, they’ve been bombing and expanding settlements in the west bank at an unprecedented rate since Oct 7th. They even bombed Bethlehem on Christmas.
https://www.google.com/search?q=israel+bombs+west+bank
You uhhh, might want to read some of the articles that pop up under that search:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/11/11/far-right-israeli-minister-orders-preparations-for-west-bank-annexation
Though yes, Israel has done some bombing in West Bank I don’t think anyone who has seriously followed the conflict would say that the actions in the West Bank have been in any way comparable to the scope and devastation in Gaza. (Admittedly, unsure what Tik Tok is saying.)
Here, lets search for Israel ministers saying that shit before the election:
https://www.google.com/search?q=israel+west+bank+annexation&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A2023%2Ccd_max%3A11%2F04%2F2024&tbm=
The Biden administration has not placed, nor will they place any limitations on Israel.
Are you reading any of these and actually not noticing the difference between what’s being said before and after the election?
They were saying they were going to annex the west bank before the election, they are saying they are going to annex the west bank now. There is no difference.
If you honestly don’t understand the difference between saying “Netenyahu must order an annexation” or “our legislators will need to pursue this” and ““I have directed the start of professional work to prepare the necessary infrastructure to apply Israeli sovereignty over Judea and Samaria” well, that’s on you kid.
»» They even bombed Bethlehem on Christmas.
WOW! While I am not surprised, I cannot believe that anyone calling themselves a Christian can still throw their support behind that wretched state.
When I mentioned that to one of my republican family, they simply refused to believe it and blamed Hamas.
Israel have been aggressively expanding in the West Bank since October 7, and intensified their campaign at around the same time they started the war with Lebanon. There are no red lines.
What new settlements happened thete in the last year? You are conflating an increase in tensions and conflict with expansion.
Uh… Here you go.
You are arguing with absolute liars. It’s like people only thinking this mess accelerated under Biden (who is the most paid politician by AIPAC) is just a coincidence. As if Israel hasn’t been expanding into some of the most important Palestinian cities while the world focuses on Gaza.
It’s the same people who say what can Biden possibly do while funding their military operations. Trump sees the praise Biden is getting from Congress and actually thinks Biden must have been doing something right. Yet, somehow there was a good choice for people who want to see Palestine prosper (Those who pretend that Harris would do better because she doesn’t shout her plans out like some cliché comic book villain).
But let’s call Trump a huge liar and let’s take his word at face value when it’s convenient for us. I’m sure the Democrats who never learn a thing will be excited to lose the next election as well. Obviously, Trump won’t be a good president but Democrats lost because they were seen as slightly less evil but with no charisma.
From the article:
Now, I’m no mathematician but surely you understand that’s orders of magnitude fewer than have been displaced in Gaza, right? Please?
Yes, because violence in the West Bank has always been lower-level than the violence in Gaza. I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make is.
Always does not mean “since I started paying attention” but regardless…
Anyway, you’re so close! Let’s tey the socratic method, given that the West Bank has been an Israeli target for years, why do you think the violence has been at such a lower level than Gaza since the rapes and murders of Oct 7th?
And why did that coincidentally change days after the election, with Smoterich now directing “the start of professional work to prepare the necessary infrastructure to apply Israeli sovereignty over Judea and Samaria.”
If you’re ruling out Biden etc, was it just a wild miracle of timing?
Thank god that the Palestinian that got their land stolen and are living like second grade citizen under apartheid are no touch. All thanks to daddy US !. You and I both know the red line is to not bomb their own Israeli settlers, right? They always had the green light… nothing really changed.
Second Grade citizen would be an improvement over how they’re living in now…
I don’t think you know what apartheid actually was.
If you deny that they’re living under apartheid, the term used by south Africa itself to describe the palestinian situation, then there’s need to discuss any further.
With all respect, I had to chuckle at this as it reminded myself of me, a quarter century-ish ago, when after having watched Colin Powell give his speech to the UN about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, I confidently supported it. Then, a kind socials studies teacher pointed out the retrospectively obvious, just because a government says it, doesn’t make it true. But he did so without making me feel belittled or dumb so I’ll try to pass on the favour.
I’d think of it though like when trump as President says there was massive electoral fraud, when Hungary/Belarus argues for denazifying Ukraine etc. Just because a government is saying something does not make it true.
In the case of South Africa, context is huge, so let me share that with you.
Since actual Apartheid, South Africa’s been ruled for 30 uninterrupted years by the ANC, which wins largely on the basis of being A) Mandela’s party and B) the symbol of anti-colonialism etc. In the last 15 or so years though, progress has pretty much stopped (the stats on indoor plumbing, electricity, youth unemployment etc are heart breaking) and they’ve started bleeding support especially to harder, more populist, vehemently anti white parties (the two main rivals argue for seizing any white farms) on the one side and the technocratic but “whitey” party, the DA on the other side. Coming into this year, the polls and election results were the worst that the ANC has ever suffered, leading to a humiliating, first ever, coalition government with the ANC and the DA.
Amidst this backdrop, Gaza happened. I cannot imagine an easier symbol of the ANC’s anti-colonial roots than lobbying a very anti colonial case at the ICJ. All the benefits of identity politics and symbolism with almost zero cost. Especially when you consider the ANC almost certainly expected they were going to have to form an unpopular coalition government and to avoid burning the country down, would do so with whitey’s colonial party. (And yes, Ramaphosa absolutely touted and campaigned on his government’s cases at the ICJ.)
Edit: Sorry, Ramaphosa is the president of South Africa and leader of the ANC. Also, even without the domestic backdrop, you might consider their BRICS membership and what that entails.
The current issues will end, Biden was at least making noises to get it to stop, Biden was trying to prevent the regional war Iran has been working on, and there were decent indications there would be recovery funding.
Trump indicated none of that and all signs point to encouraging more atrocity
Trying to stop a genocide is trying to start a regional war ? You guys have an extremely skewed view of the world.
I mean yeah he would be/is, at least until Israel’s genocide is over. There is literally nothing Trump can do (at least while beholden to the public and Congress) in this war that Biden hasn’t already done.
Trump is beholden to the public?
People have been yammering on for many years that ‘America needs a businessman for a leader’ without realizing how fucked that statement is. The idea that business people are always efficient and effective doesn’t even capture what the hell happens normally or even the difference between a business and government.
Also for ‘businessmen’ like Trump who have had numerous bankruptcies, also have an affinity for routinely breaking the law and regulations as a matter of course. This is because major companies ALWAYS have multiple lawsuits and violations investigations going on that they try to delay and delay, because the legal fees and fines and such are all factored into the cost of business. Violate safety regulations? No problem. It is better (and cheaper) to fight the injury lawsuits and occassionally have to pay out than simply to have the regulations fully complied with. Fucked some employees over and violate contract terms on the regular? By the time the lawsuit gets heard it’ll be years and they have gotten all what they wanted and much more, then maybe they can settle out of court for a few peanuts after they exhausted the plaintiff.
Do you realize how batshit insane Trump’s picks for his cabinet are? They are done in large part because he A: Wants to establish dominance over congress by seeing if they contest him, and B: Making them have to WORK and FIGHT to get those picks contested, which may not be successful and will waste tons of time and resources. This is EXACTLY how businesses operate and have been operating for many, many years.
This is why a businessman for a leader is the worst thing ever.
I mean he is to an extent. Everyone is talking like the fascist project in America is finished, but it’s not and there’s no guarantee they’ll be able to complete it. That said it’s mostly Congress doing the heavy lifting here; there are enough sane Republicans that Trump wouldn’t be able to get away with some of the more outrageous stuff.
I would love to see the list of Republicans in Congress whose districts/states WEREN’T carried by pro-Trump zealots and who WOULDN’T lose their seats if they went against Trump.
Hint: it could fit on an index card, double spaced
I mean there were Republicans opposed to one of his appointments (don’t remember who) and you only need four of them to side with the Democrats to get a majority.
That’s such a waste of card stock. Use a sticky note.
I hope you’re right but I won’t hold my breath
That’s the silliest damn thing.
Why do you think Israel announced they were annexing the West Bank right after the election?
Ignorant goddamn children spouting off about global politics.
So first, I can’t actually find anything about this except Smotrich pushing for annexation so do you have a source that says they’re going to go forward with annexation? Now second, Smotrich started yapping about annexing West Bank settlements (not the whole West Bank; if Israel did that they’d have to give Palestinians rights) literally a day or two after the election, meaning he already had plans for something similar before then. You don’t just wake up and start taking steps towards annexing an occupied territory that’s not how that works.
You mean, finance minister Smotrich?
And yes, believe it or not, the Israelis were not the only people on Earth who didn’t know about the election of their largest ally and presumably gameplanned for either a Harris or trump victory.
The fact Smotrich held back from saying anything until after the election tells you the election mattered in terms of what happens next.
That is precisely why you had to avoid trump’s carte blanche at all costs.