Somehow, Hertz continues to be an ongoing concern, in both senses of the word. The company that made itself infamous by repeatedly trying to get innocent renters arrested for car theft tried to put…
You can be arrested for trespassing after they’ve asked you to leave, even if you’re in the right in the argument you’re having with the clerk. Generally the cops will ask you to leave before arresting you, but they don’t have to.
I somewhat agree with you that it would have made it even more of a mistake, but it would be far from the first time that Hertz got some of their customers arrested and didn’t really seem to care about the bad publicity. I think I probably wouldn’t risk it.
They do need to ask you to leave, because you can only be arrested for trespassing after you’ve been formally trespassed (i.e. given clear legal notice that you’re not welcome) and violate those terms (i.e. you remain or return within the time established in the order).
If they arrest you before giving you that warning, that’s wrongful arrest and you can sue the department for it. They don’t need to tell you multiple times, but they do need to issue a lawful order.
This can absolutely vary by jurisdiction, but in general you cannot be arrested from a “public place” (and private businesses count, assuming they’re open to the public) without a trespass order.
Then he told him to leave. Understandably, the renter didn’t leave, because doing so meant he’d soon be out $10,000. When he refused to leave before this was resolved, the rep told him he was going to have him arrested.
If they tell you to leave, you refuse, and you stay there for the length of time it takes for them to call the cops and for the cops to arrive, you’re committing a crime. You don’t need to have a formal written trespass in order to be arrested from a private business for trespassing. It happens all the time, often because someone is under the impression as you said that the “warning” they got verbally from the cops 10 seconds ago wasn’t legally sufficient. It is.
In practice, the cops when they arrive will usually start off by asking you to leave and informing you for the bodycam recording that you’ll be arrested if you don’t. If you then agree to leave, you’ll almost always be all good. I think the extra flexibility about it stems from some mixture of courtesy, wanting to have an airtight case for the arrest if you do refuse, and aversion to paperwork. But you can technically be arrested on the spot because you refused to leave the first time the business asked you to, and the pattern of “please leave” / calls cops / cops come / “leave or you’ll be arrested” / “no” / arrest is a very standard pattern, nothing to sue over.
If they tell you to leave, you refuse, and you stay there for the length of time it takes for them to call the cops and for the cops to arrive, you’re committing a crime
I don’t think that’s necessarily true. There are a fixed number of people who can issue a legally binding trespass order, and it’s unclear if your average desk clerk has that authority, since it needs to be issued by the property owner or someone authorized to act on behalf of the owner WRT trespass warnings. So it’s completely reasonable IMO to wait for a police officer to investigate whether the person actually has that authority before complying with the trespass order.
That said, if you leave, you may avoid a legally binding trespass order. If you remain, my understanding is that you won’t be arrested unless you refuse to leave after receiving the formal trespass warning (and the cop may order you off the property until it’s issued). It’s safer to wait outside the business than remain inside it, but I would be very surprised if a court would uphold an arrest if you’re calmly waiting for the cop to show up and investigate. Yes, you could be arrested, but I doubt that arrest would “stick” on your record, and you may have a case to sue the cop depending on how the arrest was handled.
“warning” they got verbally from the cops 10 seconds ago wasn’t legally sufficient
Yes, when the warning comes from the cops, that’s a lawful order, and disobeying it runs a risk of arrest on its own, regardless of the trespass order behind it. That’s not this situation, we’re talking about a desk clerk at a business threatening to call the cops if you don’t leave, and that desk clerk’s authority to issue a trespass is suspect.
This is definitely running on the edge of the law and could absolutely change by jurisdiction, but my understanding is that, in the majority of jurisdictions, ignoring a trespass warning from an employee is not an arrestable offense. Obviously, do your own research and/or consult an attorney if you’re going to do this on purpose.
You can be arrested for trespassing after they’ve asked you to leave, even if you’re in the right in the argument you’re having with the clerk. Generally the cops will ask you to leave before arresting you, but they don’t have to.
I somewhat agree with you that it would have made it even more of a mistake, but it would be far from the first time that Hertz got some of their customers arrested and didn’t really seem to care about the bad publicity. I think I probably wouldn’t risk it.
They do need to ask you to leave, because you can only be arrested for trespassing after you’ve been formally trespassed (i.e. given clear legal notice that you’re not welcome) and violate those terms (i.e. you remain or return within the time established in the order).
If they arrest you before giving you that warning, that’s wrongful arrest and you can sue the department for it. They don’t need to tell you multiple times, but they do need to issue a lawful order.
This can absolutely vary by jurisdiction, but in general you cannot be arrested from a “public place” (and private businesses count, assuming they’re open to the public) without a trespass order.
If they tell you to leave, you refuse, and you stay there for the length of time it takes for them to call the cops and for the cops to arrive, you’re committing a crime. You don’t need to have a formal written trespass in order to be arrested from a private business for trespassing. It happens all the time, often because someone is under the impression as you said that the “warning” they got verbally from the cops 10 seconds ago wasn’t legally sufficient. It is.
In practice, the cops when they arrive will usually start off by asking you to leave and informing you for the bodycam recording that you’ll be arrested if you don’t. If you then agree to leave, you’ll almost always be all good. I think the extra flexibility about it stems from some mixture of courtesy, wanting to have an airtight case for the arrest if you do refuse, and aversion to paperwork. But you can technically be arrested on the spot because you refused to leave the first time the business asked you to, and the pattern of “please leave” / calls cops / cops come / “leave or you’ll be arrested” / “no” / arrest is a very standard pattern, nothing to sue over.
I don’t think that’s necessarily true. There are a fixed number of people who can issue a legally binding trespass order, and it’s unclear if your average desk clerk has that authority, since it needs to be issued by the property owner or someone authorized to act on behalf of the owner WRT trespass warnings. So it’s completely reasonable IMO to wait for a police officer to investigate whether the person actually has that authority before complying with the trespass order.
That said, if you leave, you may avoid a legally binding trespass order. If you remain, my understanding is that you won’t be arrested unless you refuse to leave after receiving the formal trespass warning (and the cop may order you off the property until it’s issued). It’s safer to wait outside the business than remain inside it, but I would be very surprised if a court would uphold an arrest if you’re calmly waiting for the cop to show up and investigate. Yes, you could be arrested, but I doubt that arrest would “stick” on your record, and you may have a case to sue the cop depending on how the arrest was handled.
Yes, when the warning comes from the cops, that’s a lawful order, and disobeying it runs a risk of arrest on its own, regardless of the trespass order behind it. That’s not this situation, we’re talking about a desk clerk at a business threatening to call the cops if you don’t leave, and that desk clerk’s authority to issue a trespass is suspect.
This is definitely running on the edge of the law and could absolutely change by jurisdiction, but my understanding is that, in the majority of jurisdictions, ignoring a trespass warning from an employee is not an arrestable offense. Obviously, do your own research and/or consult an attorney if you’re going to do this on purpose.