I don’t think the educated do know that last part anymore. i spent a decade (2014-2024) in rightwing spaces mostly on reddit… I didn’t see too many other lefties in them arguing against the alt-right.
Most lefties ignore the majority rightwing places like the plague. They’re not out there trying to save democracy by educating one voter at a time. They’re just not.
In the defense of the left, going into right-wing online spaces to try to change someone’s mind is probably one of the worst uses of one’s time possible. At least at a protest you can’t get banned by an assmad mod.
They had different levels of respect for free speech, ranging from from the extremely open places, like 4chan and 8chan, to the middle range, like the Jordan Peterson subreddit… To the fairly closed, like the Conservative subreddit.
From what I observed the biggest way a leftist could waste their time over that decade, was acting smug and self-righteous about how dumb Trump supporters are.
That particular behaviour is a big part of why Trump won, because he just had to pretend to work at McDonald’s (a joke in which he’s questioning Kamal job history), or dress up as a garbage man (in defense of his supporters)… And make a few jokes or outlandish statements to get supporters thinking a) this guy is different b) he makes me feel freer with his antics and c) he seems like a real change from stuffy politicians who never listen to me.
The left’s response to the jokes/traps was mostly to mock them and be smug, to say Trump supporters are stupid, and basically doubling down on moralisms and making them feel bad/oppressed.
It was an emotional game, Trump’s team made voters feel like change was possible, politics could be fun, and maybe someone was listening to them and going to shake things up.
The lefts message was constantly: you’re stupid, you’re bad, we’re going to do politics as usual and we’re not listening to you.
So that’s how the election was lost. On emotional games and felt sentiments.
Could have used more people in those spaces wasting their time with me. Oh well. The so right won. That’s just how it goes, voters aren’t rational, they’re emotional.
Yeah, no, I spent most of my life in a conservative community, and my first half-decade or so in online politics in right-wing circles. The “Oh, I’m really going to be reasonable uwu” reaction that liberals on the margins of the community receive when they’re being nice is nothing but window dressing. When the doors are shut, those same people who act like they just have ‘reasonable’ concerns and want to be heard will say the most vile, black-hearted shite you can imagine. When they get asspats from liberals, to them, that’s nothing but vindication that ‘even’ liberals recognize, deep down, that their views are right. If you asspat them regularly, they might think of you as ‘one of the good ones’, but that won’t change how they vote or how they think.
It’s tiring to see people continually fall for this Lucy-and-the-football trick thinking that if we just found the magic combination of words and tone, we could win over the right-wing.
Right so to you, all votes are just preset and no one ever finds a reason to vote different.
But also, did I say I was being respectful the whole time, like what do you think 4chan and 8chan are? They’re absolutely places people make heinous statements.
Pretending like me saying “conservatives voted their felt experiences” was actually me saying “conservatives just needed to be reasoned with and they’ll pat you on the ass”
Is just a really downright weird interpretation of my comment.
But also, if your view is that you can’t reason with, or educate a conservative - then why the fuck did you post this JFK quote saying you can?
You got a weird mis-match of shot going on here bud. Quite incoherent.
But also, if your view is that you can’t reason with, or educate a conservative - then why the fuck did you post this JFK quote saying you can?
It’s not conservatives who are the target for education here. Like most viruses, conservatism cannot be reliably cured; only vaccinated against. You don’t destroy a generation’s worth of conservatism by convincing all the conservatives to support the rights of women and minorities; you destroy it by educating the next generation to not make the mistake of their parents and grandparents. And as long as we fail to do that, democracy will remain in peril.
Whose we? Where do you make these interventions? Places young people hang out? What like, 4chan, 8chan, and places Jordan Peterson fans go? Places like that …
… because Trump won with low income and low education voters, not people going to college, so I hope that’s not what you meant. He did well with young men too.
So again not sure what your saying lines up against anything I said, regardless of you immediately downvoting my every comment.
I only downvoted your second comment, man. The rest I felt were contributions to the conversation, even if I disagreed with them, so I didn’t downvote.
If you’re trying to reason someone out of an opinion they didn’t reason themselves into, you’re not gonna do anything but act as a straw man for people to make into whatever they want to attack
Yes, it’s absolutely vital to reach across the isle and offer understanding and share knowledge, but you’re also up against a national propaganda system that is universally accessible.
The only two real avenues of change are
people getting negatively affected enough that the wealthy may potentially lose their status quo so they’re willing to capitulate to the middle class in a small way that keeps their illusion intact
Or, you are able to humanize yourself and your views in a way that successfully removes the difference between left/right culture war and reframe it as a top/bottom class war.
Usually best accomplished by demonstrating that most people want the same things and aren’t as different as Media tries to make us. This realization will also be worn down over time in the face of (now) every media source available inventing realities to explain how everything is correct, going to plan, and paradise is just over one more horizon of tax cuts, austerity, and diminished rights.
So you disagree with the JFK quote, is essentially what you’re saying.
I think there are plenty on the left who felt their way into their opinions (that’s often how people find their world views), and also are emotional in how they operate or interact when disagreement happens.
But I do agree money is part of how people vote too.
Everything I wrote was completely neutral. The response and outcome would be the same if it was either idealogy approaching the opposite to broker understanding/peace/unity.
Ever wonder why media always inflame culture wars but never tries to bring people together?
Interesting that you would interpret it the way you did. Maybe try considering other viewpoints and experiences when forming an opinion you’re confident enough to write down and share.
I also recommend re-reading something to make sure you understand what is being said. You seem to be filling in any blanks with personal opinion and experience to understand the subject matter instead of properly taking in and interpreting the content correctly.
I don’t think the educated do know that last part anymore. i spent a decade (2014-2024) in rightwing spaces mostly on reddit… I didn’t see too many other lefties in them arguing against the alt-right.
Most lefties ignore the majority rightwing places like the plague. They’re not out there trying to save democracy by educating one voter at a time. They’re just not.
In the defense of the left, going into right-wing online spaces to try to change someone’s mind is probably one of the worst uses of one’s time possible. At least at a protest you can’t get banned by an assmad mod.
They had different levels of respect for free speech, ranging from from the extremely open places, like 4chan and 8chan, to the middle range, like the Jordan Peterson subreddit… To the fairly closed, like the Conservative subreddit.
From what I observed the biggest way a leftist could waste their time over that decade, was acting smug and self-righteous about how dumb Trump supporters are.
That particular behaviour is a big part of why Trump won, because he just had to pretend to work at McDonald’s (a joke in which he’s questioning Kamal job history), or dress up as a garbage man (in defense of his supporters)… And make a few jokes or outlandish statements to get supporters thinking a) this guy is different b) he makes me feel freer with his antics and c) he seems like a real change from stuffy politicians who never listen to me.
The left’s response to the jokes/traps was mostly to mock them and be smug, to say Trump supporters are stupid, and basically doubling down on moralisms and making them feel bad/oppressed.
It was an emotional game, Trump’s team made voters feel like change was possible, politics could be fun, and maybe someone was listening to them and going to shake things up.
The lefts message was constantly: you’re stupid, you’re bad, we’re going to do politics as usual and we’re not listening to you.
So that’s how the election was lost. On emotional games and felt sentiments.
Could have used more people in those spaces wasting their time with me. Oh well. The so right won. That’s just how it goes, voters aren’t rational, they’re emotional.
Yeah, no, I spent most of my life in a conservative community, and my first half-decade or so in online politics in right-wing circles. The “Oh, I’m really going to be reasonable uwu” reaction that liberals on the margins of the community receive when they’re being nice is nothing but window dressing. When the doors are shut, those same people who act like they just have ‘reasonable’ concerns and want to be heard will say the most vile, black-hearted shite you can imagine. When they get asspats from liberals, to them, that’s nothing but vindication that ‘even’ liberals recognize, deep down, that their views are right. If you asspat them regularly, they might think of you as ‘one of the good ones’, but that won’t change how they vote or how they think.
It’s tiring to see people continually fall for this Lucy-and-the-football trick thinking that if we just found the magic combination of words and tone, we could win over the right-wing.
Right so to you, all votes are just preset and no one ever finds a reason to vote different.
But also, did I say I was being respectful the whole time, like what do you think 4chan and 8chan are? They’re absolutely places people make heinous statements.
Pretending like me saying “conservatives voted their felt experiences” was actually me saying “conservatives just needed to be reasoned with and they’ll pat you on the ass”
Is just a really downright weird interpretation of my comment.
But also, if your view is that you can’t reason with, or educate a conservative - then why the fuck did you post this JFK quote saying you can?
You got a weird mis-match of shot going on here bud. Quite incoherent.
It’s not conservatives who are the target for education here. Like most viruses, conservatism cannot be reliably cured; only vaccinated against. You don’t destroy a generation’s worth of conservatism by convincing all the conservatives to support the rights of women and minorities; you destroy it by educating the next generation to not make the mistake of their parents and grandparents. And as long as we fail to do that, democracy will remain in peril.
Whose we? Where do you make these interventions? Places young people hang out? What like, 4chan, 8chan, and places Jordan Peterson fans go? Places like that …
… because Trump won with low income and low education voters, not people going to college, so I hope that’s not what you meant. He did well with young men too.
So again not sure what your saying lines up against anything I said, regardless of you immediately downvoting my every comment.
I only downvoted your second comment, man. The rest I felt were contributions to the conversation, even if I disagreed with them, so I didn’t downvote.
That doesn’t answer anything I just asked, you’re not saying how or with what you disagree. You’re answers aren’t coherent.
So where are you saying these interventions should happen if his young supporters are low income, low education voters?
… and how should they happen of “you can’t reason someone out of an opinion they didn’t reason their way into?”
…and if you think that, then why the JFK quote?
If you’re trying to reason someone out of an opinion they didn’t reason themselves into, you’re not gonna do anything but act as a straw man for people to make into whatever they want to attack
Yes, it’s absolutely vital to reach across the isle and offer understanding and share knowledge, but you’re also up against a national propaganda system that is universally accessible.
The only two real avenues of change are
people getting negatively affected enough that the wealthy may potentially lose their status quo so they’re willing to capitulate to the middle class in a small way that keeps their illusion intact
Or, you are able to humanize yourself and your views in a way that successfully removes the difference between left/right culture war and reframe it as a top/bottom class war.
Usually best accomplished by demonstrating that most people want the same things and aren’t as different as Media tries to make us. This realization will also be worn down over time in the face of (now) every media source available inventing realities to explain how everything is correct, going to plan, and paradise is just over one more horizon of tax cuts, austerity, and diminished rights.
So you disagree with the JFK quote, is essentially what you’re saying.
I think there are plenty on the left who felt their way into their opinions (that’s often how people find their world views), and also are emotional in how they operate or interact when disagreement happens.
But I do agree money is part of how people vote too.
Everything I wrote was completely neutral. The response and outcome would be the same if it was either idealogy approaching the opposite to broker understanding/peace/unity.
Ever wonder why media always inflame culture wars but never tries to bring people together?
Interesting that you would interpret it the way you did. Maybe try considering other viewpoints and experiences when forming an opinion you’re confident enough to write down and share.
I also recommend re-reading something to make sure you understand what is being said. You seem to be filling in any blanks with personal opinion and experience to understand the subject matter instead of properly taking in and interpreting the content correctly.