Of course, but wayland is a solid design that’s on the path towards being that. Development would probably go a lot faster if major distros shipped wayland by default. But because of nvidia, they can’t.
I’m just annoyed by the apparent assumption from people promoting messages like this that Wayland is ready for desktop use when it’s not. It seems to give the impression that there aren’t things that have to be fixed. Like how DPI in Firefox is broken, or how MS Teams and other screen sharing apps don’t work.
I’ve wanted to adopt Wayland for years but still can’t. Claims like the OP makes it sound as if devs are out of touch with the reality of their users and that’s frustrating. If they abandon X and don’t fix the problems with Wayland then I’m screwed.
These are all good points, but please note that I’m not contending whether Wayland can do anything about it. I’m saying it’s misleading (and possibly detrimental) to imply that end users can replace x11 with Wayland. If you look beyond the individual projects, the ecosystem does not function as a complete desktop environment in the way that x11 does.
No stuff like autokey, xmodmap, xinput etc. basically no mouse and keyboard customization and no plans to fix it.
Issues with non-window overlayed widgets (context menus, modal windows-in-windows etc.)
Completely ignores compatibility with the vast majority of desktop environments except a couple, with anything non-Linux, with proprietary drivers etc.
There’s a general feeling that Wayland is doing you a favor and that anything it breaks is someone else’s problem, that we’re supposed to ignore everything that’s missing or malfunctioning or incomplete and just rejoice at the fact it works in very particular circumstances.
Look, I’m fully familiar with the “scratch an itch” approach to software development in FOSS… I’m not demanding anything from Wayland, I’m just saying it needs to work with the larger software ecosystem. You can’t use a graphical server by itself.
If it’s not working with desktop environments, not working with Nvidia, not working with keyboard/mouse configuration, not working with the clipboard, having issues with common software like browsers etc… what am I supposed to do about it?
I have to ask, you do understand that people aren’t likely to ditch their entire DE setup and go buy another graphics card, which both work perfectly well with everything except Wayland… just for the privilege of using Wayland?
It would have to offer some outstanding feature to compel people to do this. But it offers nothing and is proud of it. I don’t get it.
As someone who has made the switch for an year or so:
Legacy apps with xwayland do not scale properly and appear blurry and pixelated on my multi-monitor setup. This sucks because there are a lot of old apps that aren’t ported.
No great onscreen keyboard that works well.
Problems with Java apps like webstorm and pycharm where they won’t scale properly and are unusuable.
Even my IDE (code) and other electron based apps glitch sometimes.
I like Wayland so far but these have been really bothersome.
If it wasn’t for nvidia, wayland would be the standard by now.
If Wayland is to replace X it needs to provide feature parity and fix what’s wrong with X on top.
There’s more to being a standard than a reduced feature set that just happens to scratch an itch here and there for some users.
Pretending that 80% of desktop users don’t exist is not helping either.
Of course, but wayland is a solid design that’s on the path towards being that. Development would probably go a lot faster if major distros shipped wayland by default. But because of nvidia, they can’t.
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There’s a bit of a jump from “feature complete and still issuing maintenance releases” to “abandonware”.
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I’m just annoyed by the apparent assumption from people promoting messages like this that Wayland is ready for desktop use when it’s not. It seems to give the impression that there aren’t things that have to be fixed. Like how DPI in Firefox is broken, or how MS Teams and other screen sharing apps don’t work.
I’ve wanted to adopt Wayland for years but still can’t. Claims like the OP makes it sound as if devs are out of touch with the reality of their users and that’s frustrating. If they abandon X and don’t fix the problems with Wayland then I’m screwed.
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These are all good points, but please note that I’m not contending whether Wayland can do anything about it. I’m saying it’s misleading (and possibly detrimental) to imply that end users can replace x11 with Wayland. If you look beyond the individual projects, the ecosystem does not function as a complete desktop environment in the way that x11 does.
Besides app support what is missing in wayland(I do not game so I don’t care if the screen is allowed to tear or not)
biggest ones I see:
There’s a general feeling that Wayland is doing you a favor and that anything it breaks is someone else’s problem, that we’re supposed to ignore everything that’s missing or malfunctioning or incomplete and just rejoice at the fact it works in very particular circumstances.
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Look, I’m fully familiar with the “scratch an itch” approach to software development in FOSS… I’m not demanding anything from Wayland, I’m just saying it needs to work with the larger software ecosystem. You can’t use a graphical server by itself.
If it’s not working with desktop environments, not working with Nvidia, not working with keyboard/mouse configuration, not working with the clipboard, having issues with common software like browsers etc… what am I supposed to do about it?
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I have to ask, you do understand that people aren’t likely to ditch their entire DE setup and go buy another graphics card, which both work perfectly well with everything except Wayland… just for the privilege of using Wayland?
It would have to offer some outstanding feature to compel people to do this. But it offers nothing and is proud of it. I don’t get it.
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As someone who has made the switch for an year or so:
I like Wayland so far but these have been really bothersome.