• @chonglibloodsport
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    31 day ago

    Flat out wrong. Your entire point rests on your equation of using a civilian vehicle (a scooter) to hide a bomb with “the feigning of civilian, non-combatant status” which is categorically false. Feigning civilian, non-combatant status is very specific. It means dressing your soldiers up as civilians and approaching the enemy in order to use your false civilian status to get them to let their guard down, then attacking:

    Citing Article 37 of Additional Protocol I as support, it defines perfidy (and thus treachery) as “acts that invite the confidence of enemy persons to lead them to believe that they are entitled to, or are obliged to accord, protection under the law of war, with intent to betray that confidence.”

    In no way did a scooter parked on the street invite Kirilov’s confidence to believe he was protecting the scooter under the law of war.

    That is what perfidy means: using the protection of civilians specifically and treacherously to launch an attack while disguised as civilians. This requires that the enemy see you dressed as a civilian and let his guard down.

    This did not happen since Kirilov never saw his attackers.

    2. Ruses of war are not prohibited. Such ruses are acts which are intended to mislead an adversary or to induce him to act recklessly but which infringe no rule of international law applicable in armed conflict and which are not perfidious because they do not invite the confidence of an adversary with respect to protection under that law. The following are examples of such ruses: the use of camouflage, decoys, mock operations and misinformation.

    • @[email protected]
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      1 day ago

      That is what perfidy means: using the protection of civilians specifically and treacherously to launch an attack while disguised as civilians. This requires that the enemy see you dressed as a civilian and let his guard down.

      This did not happen since Kirilov never saw his attackers.

      Using civilian items to hide booby traps is of course treacherous. It is based on creating the idea that there is no danger coming from this item. It is additionally specifically prohibited to booby trap civilian items under the geneva convention

      https://treaties.un.org/doc/Treaties/1996/05/19960503 01-38 AM/Ch_XXVI_02_bp.pdf

      Definition:

      1. “Booby-trap” means any device or material which is designed, constructed, or adapted to kill or injure, and which functions unexpectedly when a person disturbs or approaches an apparently harmless object or performs an apparently safe act.

      Article 7 Prohibitions on the Use of booby-traps and other devices 1. Without prejudice to the rules of international applicable in armed conflict to treachery and perfidy, is prohibited in all Circumstances to use booby-traps and devices which are any way attached to or associated with: […]
      2. It is prohibited to use booby-traps or other devices in the form of apparently harmless portable objects which are specifically designed and constructed contain explosive material. .
      3. Without prejudice to provisions of Article 3, it is prohibited to use weapons to which this Article applies in any city, town, village or other area containing a similar concentration of civilians in which combat between ground forces is not taking place or not appear to be imminent, unless either:
      (a) they are placed on or in the close vicinity of a military objective; or
      (b) measures are taken to protect civilians from their effects, for example, the posting of warning sentries, the of warnings or the provision of fences.

      This is textbook. The Scooter didnt have the explosive attached, but hidden in it. It was used in an area were fighting was not ongoing or imminent and away from military objectives and there was no warning whatsoever.

      But most importantly: The rules for booby traps mention explicitly, that they can constitute treachery and perfidity

      • Skua
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        319 hours ago

        A soldier hiding in a bush is a combatant. The grenade in his hand is a weapon. It is easily discernible as such both by other soldiers and by civilians. And both soldiers and civilians will expect a grenade to explode when it is thrown at them, or at least they understand the risk of a grenade potentially exploding, if it is laying around. So they expect it to be explosive.

        Yeah, sure, they expect it if they see it and know what it is. The grenade does not suddenly become a booby trap just because you throw it at someone that isn’t looking, so the target knowing about it clearly cannot be a requirement here. Again, concealment alone is not perfidy. Inviting and betraying trust is. If you disagree, then I ask you again, quote it. Kirillov had no reason to give the scooter a second thought whatsoever; there is no invitation of trust from a scooter being parked at the side of the road.

        The entire bit about definitions here hinges on the word “when”. To me, “…which functions unexpectedly when a person disturbs…” means that the function is dependent on the disturbance or approach. To you, it just means at the same time. So let’s look at the word “when”, since you decided to quote the dictionary

        If you scroll down to the grammar notes in your link, you will see “If or when?”, a section about the usage of “when” as a conditional. So clearly we can’t just ask the dictionary here.

        You know what’s much more helpful? The part immediately after that definition of booby traps.

        1. “Other devices” means manually-emplaced munitions and devices including improvised explosive devices designed to kill, injure or damage and which are actuated manually, by remote control or automatically after a lapse of time.

        Since manually-emplaced and -triggered munitions are “other devices”, they clearly aren’t booby traps under this protocol.

        “Other devices” are still relevant to some of what you raised, particularly article 7.2 in this context. Whether a vehicle like a scooter counts as “portable” or not is ambiguous, as yes you can move them, but under their own power. You certainly can’t (easily) pick them up and carry them. Since you’ve already referenced Lieber extensively, https://lieber.westpoint.edu/booby-traps-ukraine-conflict/ provides:

        Second, booby-traps may not take the “form of an apparently harmless portable object which is specifically designed and constructed to contain explosive material and to detonate when it is disturbed or approached” (art. 7(2)). The U.S. Department of Defense’s Law of War Manual provides the example of “booby-traps manufactured to resemble items, such as watches, personal audio players, cameras, toys, and the like.” It observes that the “prohibition is intended to prevent the production of large quantities of dangerous objects that can be scattered around and are likely to be attractive to civilians, especially children” (§ 6.12.4.8).

        In that regard, note that the provision does not bar the booby-trapping of actual harmless objects, such as cameras or houses. The prohibition only applies when the booby-trap is intentionally designed to look harmless, as in a booby-trap made to look like a camera. Nor does it prohibit booby-trapping non-portable harmless things, like a gate. And it only applies to booby-traps designed or otherwise manufactured to serve as a booby-trap. Accordingly, it does not apply to field-expedient booby-traps or otherwise improvised ones. More information on the nature of the Russian booby-traps is required to determine whether this particular prohibition has been violated.

        In this case it’s discussing Russian usage of such devices, so there shouldn’t be a bias towards leniency. So by the sources you’ve been relying on:

        • This wasn’t a booby trap
        • Even if it was, it still wouldn’t be a war crime or perfidy
      • @chonglibloodsport
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        41 day ago

        It was not a booby trap! He was entering his apartment, he wasn’t approaching the scooter. It was just there!

        • @[email protected]
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          -224 hours ago

          So how did he get into the explosion range of the scooters explosives? Did he life his entire life there?

          The item was placed specifically on his way and detonated, when he got into the explosive range. So it was exploded as he approached it. It is irrelevant that he did not intend to use the scooter. He had no way of recognizing it to be explosive. Which also brings us to the next problem. No civilian was able to discern the device, or recognize that they are in an area requiring particular care as fighting was not ongoing or immanent.

            • @[email protected]
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              -123 hours ago

              I provided specific definitions from the Geneva convention. If you think the Geneva convention is trolling or some scheme deviced by Russia i can’t help you.