But with Arch you have to pay attention whenever you update or else you brick your whole system. Ask me how I know.
I’ve decided it’s not worth my time trying to figure it out. I just use KDE Neon and press the “check for updates” button. Don’t get me wrong - I know my way around a terminal - but honestly it’s just not worth my time anymore. Just give me a thing that works without me needing to think about it.
You represent the meme so well. Eventually checking Arch news for a manual intervention, using pacman properly, and making sure your system is properly maintained on a regular basis can be a bit of a hassle, which is why sooner or later you’ll choose something like KDE Neon or Mint or something similar.
He represents the meme well in the sense that these memes are all made by people who tried to climb up the bell curve but fell back down to the start, and think that’s the same as reaching the end.
That’s true, that could be a trap! I mean I’m currently toying around in Arch and so far there’s been no problems at all, but I’m just a casual user and I’d say that I fall left-side to the curve. I’m one of those in the “OS is a bootloader to the browser and maybe other applications” camp. I do feel though that it’s possible that some people may not want to think about maintaining Arch (Arch is just an example obviously), and would rather turn off their brain when it comes to system maintenance and use something like Ubuntu or Fedora or Mint, which is the point of the meme. He said that it’s not worth his time figuring it out, not that he couldn’t figure it out, if that’s worth any distinction.
Another example I can think of is using Vim when you could just use Nano or any generic text editor. I mean I use Vim as well (for pretty much everything), but in the end some people may not want to spend time getting decent at Vim because they don’t feel it’s worth their time, not because they inherently can’t. If he spent some time, he may be able to do it. I’m sure most Linux users can. But it’s just the time and energy that you must expend to get there, and not everybody feels it’s worth it, even technically proficient Linux users.
A more general abstraction of this bell curve principle is sorta like managing depression; the left-side of the curve will say something like exercise, socialising, eating healthy foods, and having life purpose. The middle might say that we need SSRIs, multiple therapy sessions, mindfulness exercises, daily journaling, compassion training etc. But, the right-side of the curve might again say exercise, socialising, eating healthy foods, and having life purpose. A realisation that something is not worth your time is not inherently indicative of the inability to do said something, though I get your point. It’s all good though!
This. I still daily drive arch, and, even though I’ve rarely had any breaking updates, it’s always feels like a gamble. Have to keep a mental note of which critical packages are being updated, just in case I have to rollback the package. Always carrying an install medium with an arch iso when taking my laptop out.
I’ve only used Manjaro a little bit but isn’t it the case the Manjaro holds back updates before rolling them out, thereby messing with stuff if you use the AUR?
My take is they’re a little more cautious than full Arch. Arch will just push stuff because it’s “ready”, Manjaro does at least some testing so I’m not the guinea pig.
I don’t have any issues with AUR stuff though, everything pretty much works out of the box.
Always carrying an install medium with an arch iso when taking my laptop out.
Same. Have to say Ventoy is an amazing tool, my emergency USB stick has 4 distros and Windows, just in case. There is also some Android app that let’s you turn your phone into bootable medium
just pacman -U /var/cache/pacman/pkg/package-X.Y.Z.tar.xz or install the downgrade script for a better experience. not sure about timeshift, it sounds like a backup tool to me.
This is the Arch way, I feel. Timeshift though, if I’m not mistaken, is a system restore tool, which seems pretty useful though I’ve never used it myself.
I toy around with Arch a little bit but sometimes these are the kinds of things that you really don’t want to think about. But the tradeoff is latest packages, of course.
That’s why no matter how much we make fun of Windows or MacOS, they both are still “just works OS” for friends/family who might not care / have time about facing issues that Linux users are accustomed to firing up the terminal to solve. Well, it might change someday. We can always hope.
On the flip side, it’s a rolling-release distro, so you don’t have to play a game of “what broke?” whenever you do a major version upgrade or do a clean install to avoid it, because there are no major version updates. And the AUR is pretty much the reason to use Arch outside of being at the cutting edge (which is mainly useful for using brand new hardware that hasn’t got the best support in the more conventional distros yet, like a new laptop).
But with Arch you have to pay attention whenever you update or else you brick your whole system. Ask me how I know.
I’ve decided it’s not worth my time trying to figure it out. I just use KDE Neon and press the “check for updates” button. Don’t get me wrong - I know my way around a terminal - but honestly it’s just not worth my time anymore. Just give me a thing that works without me needing to think about it.
You represent the meme so well. Eventually checking Arch news for a manual intervention, using pacman properly, and making sure your system is properly maintained on a regular basis can be a bit of a hassle, which is why sooner or later you’ll choose something like KDE Neon or Mint or something similar.
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That’s true, that could be a trap! I mean I’m currently toying around in Arch and so far there’s been no problems at all, but I’m just a casual user and I’d say that I fall left-side to the curve. I’m one of those in the “OS is a bootloader to the browser and maybe other applications” camp. I do feel though that it’s possible that some people may not want to think about maintaining Arch (Arch is just an example obviously), and would rather turn off their brain when it comes to system maintenance and use something like Ubuntu or Fedora or Mint, which is the point of the meme. He said that it’s not worth his time figuring it out, not that he couldn’t figure it out, if that’s worth any distinction.
Another example I can think of is using Vim when you could just use Nano or any generic text editor. I mean I use Vim as well (for pretty much everything), but in the end some people may not want to spend time getting decent at Vim because they don’t feel it’s worth their time, not because they inherently can’t. If he spent some time, he may be able to do it. I’m sure most Linux users can. But it’s just the time and energy that you must expend to get there, and not everybody feels it’s worth it, even technically proficient Linux users.
A more general abstraction of this bell curve principle is sorta like managing depression; the left-side of the curve will say something like exercise, socialising, eating healthy foods, and having life purpose. The middle might say that we need SSRIs, multiple therapy sessions, mindfulness exercises, daily journaling, compassion training etc. But, the right-side of the curve might again say exercise, socialising, eating healthy foods, and having life purpose. A realisation that something is not worth your time is not inherently indicative of the inability to do said something, though I get your point. It’s all good though!
This. I still daily drive arch, and, even though I’ve rarely had any breaking updates, it’s always feels like a gamble. Have to keep a mental note of which critical packages are being updated, just in case I have to rollback the package. Always carrying an install medium with an arch iso when taking my laptop out.
I abandoned ubuntu for that very same experience, found your Ubuntu zen on manjaro instead. Funny how it goes sometimes.
I’ve only used Manjaro a little bit but isn’t it the case the Manjaro holds back updates before rolling them out, thereby messing with stuff if you use the AUR?
My take is they’re a little more cautious than full Arch. Arch will just push stuff because it’s “ready”, Manjaro does at least some testing so I’m not the guinea pig.
I don’t have any issues with AUR stuff though, everything pretty much works out of the box.
Same. Have to say Ventoy is an amazing tool, my emergency USB stick has 4 distros and Windows, just in case. There is also some Android app that let’s you turn your phone into bootable medium
I didn’t know you could turn a phone into a bootable medium!
As far as I remember it was DriveDroid and required root. I used to have small ISOs on my phone, like Arch, Super Grub2 Disk, GParted
Interesting. Thanks!
How do you roll back packages? Do you use Timeshift or just using pacman?
just
pacman -U /var/cache/pacman/pkg/package-X.Y.Z.tar.xzor install the downgrade script for a better experience. not sure about timeshift, it sounds like a backup tool to me.This is the Arch way, I feel. Timeshift though, if I’m not mistaken, is a system restore tool, which seems pretty useful though I’ve never used it myself.
I toy around with Arch a little bit but sometimes these are the kinds of things that you really don’t want to think about. But the tradeoff is latest packages, of course.
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That’s why no matter how much we make fun of Windows or MacOS, they both are still “just works OS” for friends/family who might not care / have time about facing issues that Linux users are accustomed to firing up the terminal to solve. Well, it might change someday. We can always hope.
On the flip side, it’s a rolling-release distro, so you don’t have to play a game of “what broke?” whenever you do a major version upgrade or do a clean install to avoid it, because there are no major version updates. And the AUR is pretty much the reason to use Arch outside of being at the cutting edge (which is mainly useful for using brand new hardware that hasn’t got the best support in the more conventional distros yet, like a new laptop).