They’re fat and lazy enough already. Last thing we need is an SE thinking they sit on IP and the rest of us can fuck off. You write code that others defined and you work WITHIN a system. You are the equivalent of a translator who speaks Spanish. You don’t work magic. Everyone else works in systems we are all asked to consider the business logic beyond simple tasks so fuck off with your snowflakes. I work with so many engineering VPs that you just come off as “special”. You are white gloves special people who demand handling that no one else requests, and for why? Why do you deserve special IP concerns?
Seriously I am tired of engineers being gate keepers while the other two legs of the stool keep this shit together.
Seriously engineers get your shit together as we are all making a product together and you don’t own any more shit then a pm and that’s saying something.
Seriously I am tired of engineers being gate keepers while the other two legs of the stool keep this shit together.
Seriously engineers get your shit together as we are all making a product together
Half my job as a programmer is chasing down the non-devs asking them to explain how they imagined the thing they asked for working, and then trying to find the politest words to say their idea is really bad, all the while trying not to insult their intelligence. The other half is putting out fires that come up all the time because the people who “made the product together” made horrendous decisions about the product design without consulting the devs, or even getting their input. So now we’re saddled with mounting technical debt because of a bunch of morons who were convinced they knew more than the people who teach computers to think.
Seriously, half the things I hear non-devs say make me actually wonder about the “average” level of intelligence of our species.
Then half of your job is dealing with a shitty company and not being a developer. Half of your job is being wasted on overhead you can’t manage. That is half of your capability wasted on a lack of collaboration. How else to describe it than you are half the dev you could be while you blame everyone else. Shit as a director I’m not mixing words.
What you’re tracing the edges of is not being able manage complexity in a collaborative environment. If you can’t break the problem down part of is on the team but a lot of it is on you. If you want to architect a solution you have to be able to explain it.
That’s antithetical to you keeping on about how shitty (everyone else is) aka the other half of the world.
It’s pretty bad having to explain this to coddled engineers learning how the other half of the company works. Talking as if everyone else doesn’t get it while they can’t even perceive their own bubble. It’s not magic. It’s code. It’s nothing crazy so why be an asshole about it? Why do I get more bs from coders than I do contractors working on my roof? And don’t get me wrong the roofers piss in a shingles box and leave it for me to dispose… My grandfather worked on the Apollo missions so why is C# black fucking magic and suddenly you’re Gandalf? To YOU it’s magic. To the rest of us it’s a fucking job and you talk too much.
Then half of your job is dealing with a shitty company and not being a developer.
Partly correct, but yes.
Half of your job is being wasted on overhead you can’t manage.
Who said I can’t manage it?
How else to describe it than you are half the dev you could be while you blame everyone else. Shit as a director I’m not mixing words.
Director? That actually tracks. Believe it or not, but a good 30% to 40% of a dev’s work is not writing code. You can’t just start screwing 2x4s together and expect a house. There needs to be coordination and collaboration between the devs; and paradoxically, the more devs you have the more time is spent on that collaboration and coordination part. It’s called The Mythical Man Month. Something managers and directors haven’t been able to get into their heads since the 70s.
If you can’t break the problem down part of is on the team but a lot of it is on you.
Break what problem down? What are you on about?
If you want to architect a solution you have to be able to explain it.
Ya, that’s absolutely right. And I’ve yet to meet a PM that can properly explain what they’re looking for. They explain result A, they get result A, then suddenly they actually meant result §∆. Happens every time.
It’s pretty bad having to explain this to coddled engineers learning how the other half of the company works.
I know full well how the other half works. Not a lot of complexity there. 90+% of what’s said in meetings could be an email. I bet you’re one of those directors that insists the devs have daily check-ins (absolute waste of time) and even have some of the other managers and “stakeholders” join to “ask questions”, when anyone who isn’t a dev has zero right and business to be there. Those stand-ups are not for you and you’re just in the way.
Talking as if everyone else doesn’t get it
They don’t. It’s that simple.
why be an asshole about it?
Did you really just spit in the face of an entire group and then cry about someone being mean when they called you out? If you’re a director, holy crap! I pity and fear for the people who work with you.
Why do I get more bs from coders than I do contractors working on my roof?
I have a theory…
My grandfather worked on the Apollo missions so why is C# black fucking magic and suddenly you’re Gandalf?
Yea the delta is important. And the mythical man month also counts ramp up time and not people just being generally incompetent.
Been through lots of engineers that can’t make it past ramp up, where everything is unpossible. Had many pms that couldn’t speak past the problem to save their lives so I feel that. But let’s be clear if there is a way forward don’t obscure the value. Don’t talk down. I work with post docs, principal engineers etc and they seem to be able to break down the problem, meanwhile lower level techs keep up with this shit.
They’re fat and lazy enough already. Last thing we need is an SE thinking they sit on IP and the rest of us can fuck off. You write code that others defined and you work WITHIN a system. You are the equivalent of a translator who speaks Spanish. You don’t work magic. Everyone else works in systems we are all asked to consider the business logic beyond simple tasks so fuck off with your snowflakes. I work with so many engineering VPs that you just come off as “special”. You are white gloves special people who demand handling that no one else requests, and for why? Why do you deserve special IP concerns?
Seriously I am tired of engineers being gate keepers while the other two legs of the stool keep this shit together.
Seriously engineers get your shit together as we are all making a product together and you don’t own any more shit then a pm and that’s saying something.
Half my job as a programmer is chasing down the non-devs asking them to explain how they imagined the thing they asked for working, and then trying to find the politest words to say their idea is really bad, all the while trying not to insult their intelligence. The other half is putting out fires that come up all the time because the people who “made the product together” made horrendous decisions about the product design without consulting the devs, or even getting their input. So now we’re saddled with mounting technical debt because of a bunch of morons who were convinced they knew more than the people who teach computers to think.
Seriously, half the things I hear non-devs say make me actually wonder about the “average” level of intelligence of our species.
If it wasn’t, then you’d be able to do the job.
To you, it IS magic.
Then half of your job is dealing with a shitty company and not being a developer. Half of your job is being wasted on overhead you can’t manage. That is half of your capability wasted on a lack of collaboration. How else to describe it than you are half the dev you could be while you blame everyone else. Shit as a director I’m not mixing words.
What you’re tracing the edges of is not being able manage complexity in a collaborative environment. If you can’t break the problem down part of is on the team but a lot of it is on you. If you want to architect a solution you have to be able to explain it.
That’s antithetical to you keeping on about how shitty (everyone else is) aka the other half of the world.
It’s pretty bad having to explain this to coddled engineers learning how the other half of the company works. Talking as if everyone else doesn’t get it while they can’t even perceive their own bubble. It’s not magic. It’s code. It’s nothing crazy so why be an asshole about it? Why do I get more bs from coders than I do contractors working on my roof? And don’t get me wrong the roofers piss in a shingles box and leave it for me to dispose… My grandfather worked on the Apollo missions so why is C# black fucking magic and suddenly you’re Gandalf? To YOU it’s magic. To the rest of us it’s a fucking job and you talk too much.
Partly correct, but yes.
Who said I can’t manage it?
Director? That actually tracks. Believe it or not, but a good 30% to 40% of a dev’s work is not writing code. You can’t just start screwing 2x4s together and expect a house. There needs to be coordination and collaboration between the devs; and paradoxically, the more devs you have the more time is spent on that collaboration and coordination part. It’s called The Mythical Man Month. Something managers and directors haven’t been able to get into their heads since the 70s.
Break what problem down? What are you on about?
Ya, that’s absolutely right. And I’ve yet to meet a PM that can properly explain what they’re looking for. They explain result A, they get result A, then suddenly they actually meant result §∆. Happens every time.
I know full well how the other half works. Not a lot of complexity there. 90+% of what’s said in meetings could be an email. I bet you’re one of those directors that insists the devs have daily check-ins (absolute waste of time) and even have some of the other managers and “stakeholders” join to “ask questions”, when anyone who isn’t a dev has zero right and business to be there. Those stand-ups are not for you and you’re just in the way.
They don’t. It’s that simple.
Did you really just spit in the face of an entire group and then cry about someone being mean when they called you out? If you’re a director, holy crap! I pity and fear for the people who work with you.
I have a theory…
Your grandfather sounds like he was a smart guy.
To me it’s code and logic. To you it’s magic.
Yea the delta is important. And the mythical man month also counts ramp up time and not people just being generally incompetent.
Been through lots of engineers that can’t make it past ramp up, where everything is unpossible. Had many pms that couldn’t speak past the problem to save their lives so I feel that. But let’s be clear if there is a way forward don’t obscure the value. Don’t talk down. I work with post docs, principal engineers etc and they seem to be able to break down the problem, meanwhile lower level techs keep up with this shit.