Regular reminder that being an asshole is not a symptom of any form of neurodivergence. (You can replace “neurodivergent” with depressed, anxious, bipolar, etc. and the diagram works equally well)

ETA: social faux pas, awkwardness, and genuine symptoms of neurodivergence don’t make you an asshole. I shouldn’t have to say this? An “asshole” is someone who enacts a pattern of abusive, controlling, harassing, and/or harmful behavior with no remorse or concern for how other people are affected.

  • @[email protected]
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    933 days ago

    I agree but would qualify my agreement with a note:

    Some of our neurodivergent traits come across as assholeish or rude behavior and while most of us try and temper and mask it does slip out especially in high stress situations.

    Intention matters.

    I think it’s my responsibility to explain to coworkers and make super sure they understand how I am especially after a high stress event (for me that’d likely be a server outage in production).

    • isaacdOP
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      483 days ago

      This is true! But there’s a very easy way to tell the difference.

      When you find out you hurt someone’s feelings, do you apologize, express how terrible you feel about it, and try to do better? Not an asshole.

      Do you double down, make excuses, and blame them for feeling bad? Asshole.

      Saying the wrong thing doesn’t make you a jerk. Not caring about other people’s feelings, does.

      • troed
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        313 days ago

        You’re still making it a bit too easy for you. “Not caring about other people’s feelings” is very close to “Not able to understand why somebody reacts and feels a certain way” but is definitely not the same thing.

        I’m a parent to (at least one diagnosed so far) autistic child and there are plenty of situations in which this very kind, friendly and empathic person is simply unable to understand why one of the other siblings reacted as they did. Has nothing to do with whether they care or not.

        • isaacdOP
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          343 days ago

          This is valid criticism and I’m going to sit with it.

          All the same, most of the (adult) autistic folks I’ve known in my life have been quick to apologize and take responsibility, even when other peoples’ reactions don’t make sense to them.

          • troed
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            263 days ago

            Absolutely. Part of masking is to emulate behavior you’ve observed even though you don’t understand it.

            The child in question often need us parents to point out what happened and then they’re able to say the correct things. What I meant was that it’s not obvious to them that someone got offended - at all - to begin with.

            • isaacdOP
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              183 days ago

              Well said and point well taken.

              I always encourage people to communicate, gently and clearly, what the other person did that was hurtful. I have so much empathy for people who are clueless (hi, hello, it’s me). But no empathy at all for people who callously, intentionally harass and hurt others.

        • @[email protected]
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          123 days ago

          OK, but being able to understand the reasons why a person is upset is irrelevant to how you respond when you’re made aware that your actions upset them.

          Again, if you apologize and try to understand your mistake, you’re not an asshole.

        • 3 dogs in a trenchcoat
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          -13 days ago

          “Not understanding other people’s feelings” is called lacking empathy, which is a common autism symptom. I’m saying this because it seems like you might be confusing “empathy” with caring about people, a misconception which harms people who lack empathy.

          • @Whats_your_reasoning
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            3 days ago

            That’s an old misconception. Autistic people don’t lack empathy any more than neurotypical people. Autistic people may not react the way a neurotypical person expects somebody with empathy to react, but that doesn’t mean there’s no feeling of empathy. Sometimes we can easily understand someone’s feelings, but still not know what we’re expected to do in response to that information.

      • @[email protected]
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        3 days ago

        Do you double down, make excuses, and blame them for feeling bad? Asshole.

        I often inconvenience people in a particular way. (I’m very frequently late.) I apologize a lot but then I keep doing the same thing. It’s really hard for me not to, I get why this frustrates people, and I don’t blame anyone who refuses to put up with the inconvenience. However, people often assume that I keep inconveniencing them because I don’t respect them, and I want them to understand that that’s not what’s going on.

        • isaacdOP
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          103 days ago

          Hey that’s valid! A good friend of mine has the exact same thing. He’s up front about it, he apologizes when it’s excessive, and he’s more than happy to explain why it’s difficult for him. It’s just a thing, and if I’m going to be his friend, that means accepting it about him.

          In other words, he’s done his best to help me understand him. Now it’s my turn to not be an asshole.

    • Norah (pup/it/she)
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      33 days ago

      There’s absolutely a point where I’m not going to mask for the sake of social niceties. I try my best to not be a jerk though, but there are so many situations where I’ve been called rude for not following the NT script. For example, stopping someone, saying I don’t want to have a conversation right now, and walking away. Not an excuse to avoid difficult talks either, just when it’s a convo about whatever random thing and I don’t have the capacity to listen.

    • snooggums
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      3 days ago

      Intention matters.

      It matters up to a point where the negatives outweigh the good intentions, same as everyone else.

    • @[email protected]
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      53 days ago

      The tough part is people hide when they’re offended, so you can’t even avoid doing the same faux pas in the future.

      They just gossip behind your back about you being a jerk. Problem solved!