Wasn’t Khemet a completely seperate civilization than the Egypt in the same place today? I think it’s totally reasonable to differentiate between them. We don’t say Mexicans built Chichen Itza
The aliens who built the first pyramids gradually noticed that the we’re a fucked up species and went back home to Alpha Centaury. Less alien input, less good pyramids, obv. /s
Mexicans didn’t build Chichen Itza, the ancestors of some Mexicans did. And those ancestors weren’t called Mexicans. We say Mayans built Chichen Itza because that’s the name of their civilisation. Their descendants can acknowledge that heritage by calling themselves Mayan, but what they call themselves isn’t what determines what their ancestors should be called, much less their citizenship today.
People have lifespans, they die? As individuals they most definitely are not, and as a people they are only so long as they claim to be
Edit: what I’m trying to say is (most) Egyptians don’t even identify as Khemetians much less call themselves so. So it doesn’t make sense to retroactively call that civilisation a name only its successors are called by other people
Is that true? I thought not even the people that lived there thousands of years ago considered themselves to be the same as the old kingdom.
Regardless, the difference is that what their descendants are called doesn’t change what they were called. And by calling themselves a different name than their ancestors, their descendants are acknowledging that there is a distinction between the two peoples
Many indigenous groups now call themselves names others used to call them. Because they didn’t have a name for themselves, they were just “the people.”
There was never a united Mayan empire. It was a collection of city-states that shared a culture. Eventually the descendents of the people of those city-states were referred to by others as Mayan.
So, again, according to your own rationale, the Mayan people of today are not the same people as their indigenous ancestors despite sharing a language and many cultural links.
TIL, although Wikipedia also says Maya is derived from their historical capital Mayapan, which tracks as far as civilisations go. It’s the next best thing they can be called if there isn’t a word they called themselves.
So, again, according to your own rationale, the Mayan people of today are not the same people as their indigenous ancestors
That’s not what I wrote at all? My point is that a civilization shouldn’t be referred to by
What country exists there today
What citizenship their descendants have
What their descendants call themselves
I made no comments about who gets to claim heritage. I said you can only claim to be the same people as your ancestors, not claim your ancestors were the same people as you.
You can make the argument, but then you’d have to fence off at least 6 or 7 different “Egypts”. The precise division would depend on what point you’re trying to make.
The flip side, though, is that that implies you’d only ever draw the lines to make a point, which would mean the reply here isn’t “that’s not true”, but “So? What are you trying to say?”.
Wasn’t Khemet a completely seperate civilization than the Egypt in the same place today? I think it’s totally reasonable to differentiate between them. We don’t say Mexicans built Chichen Itza
Even the ancient Egyptians said they where a legacy civilisation.
Honestly how the fuck do you get progressively worse at building pyramids.
Look around you. We’re getting progressively worse at building houses, infrastructure, cars, appliances, electronics and software.
The aliens who built the first pyramids gradually noticed that the we’re a fucked up species and went back home to Alpha Centaury. Less alien input, less good pyramids, obv. /s
in this case /s clearly means science
Mexicans did build Chichen Itza. Mayans are Mexicans. They still live there. They still speak the language.
And genetically, the Egyptians who live there today have been shown to be the descendants of the ancient Egyptians. Where do you think they went?
Mexicans didn’t build Chichen Itza, the ancestors of some Mexicans did. And those ancestors weren’t called Mexicans. We say Mayans built Chichen Itza because that’s the name of their civilisation. Their descendants can acknowledge that heritage by calling themselves Mayan, but what they call themselves isn’t what determines what their ancestors should be called, much less their citizenship today.
Sorry… are you saying modern Mayans are not the same people as ancient Mayans?
Is this true about other indigenous peoples in the Americas?
So the British made Hadrian’s wall and Italy built the Colosseum? Or perhaps a genetically linked but wholly different group of people made those.
Okay, so none of the indigenous people of the Americas today are of the same people who were there before European contact. I see.
I guess we should take away all those reservations. They don’t deserve them.
Edit: Also, no, the Romano-British did not make Hadrian’s Wall. Legions from other parts of the empire did. That’s a poor argument.
What a deranged take.
Edit: Nice edit. That’s the point, they’re not the same people even if map borders after conquest would lead one to believe they were.
I’m going by your own claim. Are the Mayans today of the same people as the Mayans who built Chichen Itza or not?
According to your claim, they are not. Therefore why does any indigenous person need a reservation? Or even deserve to call themselves indigenous?
Oh Squid.
The Mayans of today are as similar to ancient Mayans as Italians are to ancient Romans.
I don’t know why you keep trying to bring up reservations, not sure how that’s relevant.
People have lifespans, they die? As individuals they most definitely are not, and as a people they are only so long as they claim to be
Edit: what I’m trying to say is (most) Egyptians don’t even identify as Khemetians much less call themselves so. So it doesn’t make sense to retroactively call that civilisation a name only its successors are called by other people
Many Egyptians today claim to be of the same people as those who were there in the old kingdom. Genetically, they are correct.
So what’s the difference?
Is that true? I thought not even the people that lived there thousands of years ago considered themselves to be the same as the old kingdom.
Regardless, the difference is that what their descendants are called doesn’t change what they were called. And by calling themselves a different name than their ancestors, their descendants are acknowledging that there is a distinction between the two peoples
Many indigenous groups now call themselves names others used to call them. Because they didn’t have a name for themselves, they were just “the people.”
Incidentally, that includes the Maya people.
There was never a united Mayan empire. It was a collection of city-states that shared a culture. Eventually the descendents of the people of those city-states were referred to by others as Mayan.
So, again, according to your own rationale, the Mayan people of today are not the same people as their indigenous ancestors despite sharing a language and many cultural links.
I think you may be a bit out of your depth here.
TIL, although Wikipedia also says Maya is derived from their historical capital Mayapan, which tracks as far as civilisations go. It’s the next best thing they can be called if there isn’t a word they called themselves.
That’s not what I wrote at all? My point is that a civilization shouldn’t be referred to by
I made no comments about who gets to claim heritage. I said you can only claim to be the same people as your ancestors, not claim your ancestors were the same people as you.
Well, I also doubt Hackney chavs kicked off the industrial revolution.
You can make the argument, but then you’d have to fence off at least 6 or 7 different “Egypts”. The precise division would depend on what point you’re trying to make.
The flip side, though, is that that implies you’d only ever draw the lines to make a point, which would mean the reply here isn’t “that’s not true”, but “So? What are you trying to say?”.