“We have intercepted electronic communication indicating that al-Qaeda members are actively plotting to stay out of the way while America as we know it gradually crumbles under the weight of its own self-inflicted debt and disrepair,” FBI Deputy Director Mark F. Giuliano told the assembled press corps. “If this plan succeeds, it will leave behind a nation with a completely dysfunctional economy, collapsing infrastructure, and a catastrophic health crisis afflicting millions across the nation. We want to emphasize that this danger is very real.”
In all fairness, their 9/11 attack was massivelly successful in getting the US into a spiral of increasing authoritarianism and propaganda which in turn accelerated the pillaging of the wealth of must of its population that really took off in the time of Reagan: basically people so easilly accepted massive levels of surveillance and complete total subversion via things such as anti-Terrorism legislation of the balance of Rule Of Law, that the elites just started squeezing people more and faster with total confidence that people wouldn’t rebel or be able to do anything about it.
I mean, Neoliberalism would always naturally end up in a new Gilded Age only worse, but the rush away from fundamental elements of Democracy (you know, not to be under surveillance by a Stasi-like structure or be treated as a terrorist because of being a member of an Environmentalist group) - which in turn resulted in situations as we see now with UHC and Luigi and the vey open “in service of the 0.01%” behaviour of the Ju$tice System and the Press - was anchored on using 9/11 as an excuse.
I always argue that bin Laden succeeded in his goals in the 9/11 attack, just the effects were delayed. This country changed overnight for the worse. I was 12, I didn’t believe the official story at the time and still don’t. Bush had the shadiest ties to the saudis and he wanted a war. I’m 100% convinced that at minimum his admin let it happen so they had an excuse to start a forever war and clamp down at home against anyone that threatened their interests. It’s interesting that environmental and animal rights protesters get hit with terrorism charges and life long jail sentences, it’s interesting that’s happening to Luigi too, and it’s really interesting that not a single school shooter has been charged with the same. Is shooting up a school not terrorism or do you need to shout allah akbar first?
Regardless of the reality of what happened, the increased scrutiny and surveillance pushed a lot of people to distrust of institutions, just like you.
That sentiment was actually ramping up quite a bit in the 90s, and the way the factors that led to the mistrust never went away, but we were given a Faustian deal to ignore them or be labeled a traitor made it all worse.
I’ve been called a conspiracy theorist since 9/11.
They knew. They at minimum let it happen because it would be good for their buddies in the offense industry.
I’m certainly not going to argue with you on this.
However, I will say that, fromy perspective, if you remember the world prior to 9/11, government incompetence was the standard. Sometimes shitbag people can bumble into a golden opportunity and have no hesitation milking it for all they can.
But I can’t prove my idealized version any more than you can. Maybe we’re both right. Maybe we’re both wrong. We’ll never know.
Government incompetence is still the standard. Their a bunch of bumbling fools until it’s time to give goodies to their donors. But they’re pOwErLeSs to help us little people. Their hands are tied! Boo hoo!
Re bush and 9/11, there’s some really insanely shady ties between the bush family and the saudi royal family as well as bin Laden and the Saudi royal family. The bush’s have been up to shit for over a century being shady as fuck. Same with Cheney. Then there’s blackwater, Erik prince, etc. a whole lot of hands in the “defense” cookie jar.
The saudis are our so called allies just like the Israelis. Neither are to be trusted.
I’m a follow the money type and war - especially forever war against a shifting target! - is really profitable for warmongers.
I think it was the crashing of our economy that allowed the holding companies and hedge funds to buy up more stock, then Alan Greenspan deciding to set interest rates at 0 to boost the economy, which was a huge factor in creating the housing bubble, that really fucked us.
Mass surveillance certainly didn’t help, but 9/11 also brought out the beginnings of the “America First, fuck you I got my big diesel truck with flags all over it” crowd too. Wait I mean patriots.
I think there’s no direct connection between the surveillance state and authoritarianism in this context, but certainly an indirect one.
It’s the xenophobia, racism, us vs them, and all that type of rhetoric seized on by the republicans that expanded well beyond just the external forces and took over. Now they paint everything they can with that brush. That drove the surveillance state and the constant harping on border control. Everyone outside the border is a drug dealer, rapist, freeloader, socialist, or terrorist. Beating the drum of fear over and over again. The authoritarianism is them doing unto others before the others even thought about doing anything at all, the republicans just assume everyone is like them and want to beat them to the punch. The control they’re asserting is so they can keep doing unto others while stuffing their own pockets as fast as possible. Because everyone’s greedy like them, too.
False. Patriot act, the NSA, etc. that all started in response to 9/11.
NYC’s insane militarized police force that trains with the Israelis and is essentially a quasi army of its own. That’s 9/11.
There’s no way you were alive and conscious for 9/11 if you think this because you are severely misinformed.
The rest of your comment is just America as america has always been. It’s always been xenophobic and racist. It was built on slavery and genocide these things didn’t just appear after 9/11.
Don’t be an ass by dismissing my level of knowledge or what I’ve experienced. You know nothing about me.
I’m not sure you quite followed my argument. I already agreed the patriot act is because of 9/11. You’re arguing over something I didn’t say. The debate I was making was actual authoritarianism vs surveillance, but you’re just throwing random crap about the NYPD and Israelis into the argument about national politics to see what sticks.
Maybe that’s in another comment but not the one I responded to. Your comment is saying that authoritarianism and surveillance are indirectly related to 9/11 but really social factors got accelerated. No, there’s a direct correlation.
As for the NYPD, it’s part of the security state. Whining about it not being federal misses the point entirely.
It’s also whining about the republicans when the democrats 100% were part of this. Very few democrats stood up to it and those that did lost their careers for the most part. Only Bernie and Obama remained unscathed during the bush admin. Obama voted against Iraq which is partly why he won the 2008 primary despite Hillary attempting to ratfuck it. Bernie has just been an ineffectual disappointment all along.
You’re still arguing over something I didn’t say and already agreed to. I said populism took advantage of racism to create the current acceleration towards open authoritarianism.
Nobodys whining. Keep being insulting. No, the NYPD is not a substitute for national politics.
The militarization of the NYPD and giving it military like power (including it’s own intelligence and spying units) was in direct response to 9/11.
The NYPD was just one metropolitan police department and just the first. The militarization of the local police forces nation wide is directly in response to 9/11. Does some police force in Nebraska need a military tank? No but they’re getting one.
Good luck protesting the state when the local police are armed for major war with another superpower.
As someone who spent time in occupy Wall Street, those broadened police powers post 9/11 did a great job at ending the protest.
Oh sorry, that’s irrelevant to your “point”. Most Americans don’t deal with the feds. But our local forces oppress us on the daily, and they’ve been given all sorts of goodies post 9/11 to be as efficient as possible at oppression.
I don’t know why you seem to think that the federal policy of treating Americans like criminals doesn’t apply to the states and local forces. You’re splitting hairs because you’re wrong. There’s your direct connection between the surveillance state, authoritarianism and 9/11. Local police forces don’t operate in a bubble like they used to pre 9/11.