I recently took up Bazzite from mint and I love it! After using it for a few days I found out it was an immutable distro, after looking into what that is I thought it was a great idea. I love the idea of getting a fresh image for every update, I think for businesses/ less tech savvy people it adds another layer of protection from self harm because you can’t mess with the root without extra steps.
For anyone who isn’t familiar with immutable distros I attached a picture of mutable vs immutable, I don’t want to describe it because I am still learning.
My question is: what does the community think of it?
Do the downsides outweigh the benefits or vice versa?
Could this help Linux reach more mainstream audiences?
Any other input would be appreciated!
… why would you want to install packages with
sudo? The proper way is to install them (as a user, not root) usingrpm-ostree, which will layer the packages on top of the image, automatically installing them for every future system as well.You haven’t actually looked into immutable distributions, have you?
I admit that I didn’t know about how rpm-ostree is capable of what you mentioned, but I still don’t like immutables for the other reasons I’ve mentioned. I did look into them and I can’t use them. I like my regular distro
I keep hearing this, but people never elaborate on those “other reasons”. Did I miss where you mentioned them?
You mentioned storage, but AFAIK atomic Fedora doesn’t use more space (unless you keep multiple versions for rolling back).
I don’t want to deal with images. I don’t want to have to be cleaning the system from those images to reclaim my storage. I dislike flatpaks, snaps and appimage on which immutable distros rely. The lack of customization as you can’t modify system files or install traditional packages outside the immutable framework, which limits personal tweaks. Apps availability, not all apps on the planet exist in flatpaks. The learning curve. Having to change the way I interact with my computer completely, I’m too fucking lazy for that and way too cozy where I am. They’re just a burden that I don’t want to deal with and I hope that that’s ok with you. Lmao
Of course it’s ok! You do whatever you want. Though I’d like to clear up a couple of misconceptions:
You don’t have to, happens automatically.
Fair, though you don’t have to use them at all - you could run everything in a distrobox.
This really depends on what system files you mean. Anything in
/etc/? Fully writable. Everything is configurable either in your home directory or in/etc/, so I haven’t run into any issues with not being able to modify something - and if you do run into that, you always have distrobox.Don’t need to, you have distrobox for that.
That’s fair. It’s been very small for me, and the issues have helped me become a better Linux developer, but it does bring its own problems in some cases.
That’s the thing, I hear this a lot, and I just don’t know what the big changes are. I installed Kinoite, set up a distrobox, and have been smooth sailing since - all my previous installations have had far more issues, and I just haven’t really changed much (besides switching from Ubuntu to Fedora, but I’m happy about that, fuck Canonical).
See, most of those things you mentioned are new things that I have no interest in getting into. I don’t know how to explain it, but the fact that you started listing ways to fix the things that are totally avoidable by me and I don’t need to bother with because what I have works fine, is an instant turn off. I’ve messed with distrobox and I hated it, just like how I hated nixOS. It’s just not for me. I can’t get into it even if I tired. Distrobox is just another thing I don’t need nor want to fuck with, because, again, what I have works perfectly for me. It’s different from person to another. You might like to dig into new things, but I don’t. I do other things on my machine. I have one workflow and I’d quite literally get into depression if I changed it, no joke. I like to set things one way and keep that one way forever. I’ve been running Linux since 2018 and have always used Plasma, and have always used it on an Arch based distros(never Arch itself surprisingly). I have had the same set up all these years. I’ve tried gnome for a while and I literally hated my machine (no disrespect to any gnome user or the gnome team). I hope that makes sense. I get that you defend/advertise/make look good the thing you use. It’s an internal justification, I get it, but people have different likes and dislikes.
All that’s totally fine! I wasn’t trying to convince you. I just don’t want newbies to get discouraged by reading “all this stuff is non-standard and you can’t tinker and do stuff”. Because you can, it’s the same stuff.
Newbies should have no business messing with stuff like this to begin with. They should start with mint and call it a day. Lol
Definitely not, this kind of system is perfect for newbies. You have a distrobox you can break all day long, and your main system stays nice and working.
That’s what I mean. You put it like it’s incredibly complicated and strange, when there’s pretty much only upsides. Do you have any idea how much time I’ve spent on various distributions to debug NVidia issues? Everything is working perfectly now, and it has for months. I’ve never had this good of a Linux experience.