Bringing a good argument to a gunfight is unfortunately not a winning strategy. When the fascists have no qualms shooting you simply for being yourself, no amount of peaceful organizing is going to stop them. Peaceful protests and organizing only work because they have the implicit threat of violence if the demands are not met.
Yeah because that is what Martin Luther King Jr. would have wanted. We also have to ignore all the peaceful demonstrations throughout history to believe your line of reasoning.
I totally get you live in a fantasy world where moar guns are the only solution. I guess the good guys just magically kill the bad guys. Glad we got that all worked out.
Would you like to investigate what the Black Panthers did? The number of times they shot their guns in anger is very small, but having guns was integral to their strategy of protecting the rights of black people being harassed by police. They were so effective that they changed to rules to prevent them from using guns the way they did. There were little more than 100 Black Panthers around at the time.
Perhaps you’d like to have a broader view of history beyond peaceful protests? Peaceful and violent means of protest rarely exist alone, and are rarely effective alone.
India would like a word. I have a very broad view. The difference is people don’t always have to murder each other. In fact, murdering each other rarely brings about the kind a change we need in our society.
On today, the day we celebrate MLK Jr. maybe you could give peace a fucking chance. Tomorrow you can go back to being murderous gun nutter.
This book sometimes gets framed as “this proves non-violent protest is always better”, but its text is far more nuanced than that. For any peaceful group that succeeds, you can find a more violent group working for the same goals. This is so consistent that making an academic case that peaceful protest works in isolation is an impossible task. For MLK, it was groups like the Black Panthers. For Gandhi, it was the Indian National Army.
Fascists would very much like it if you swallowed the idea that peaceful protest on its own is sufficient.
On today, the day we celebrate MLK Jr. maybe you could give peace a fucking chance.
So if we come back tomorrow, do we get to argue without this shield around bad facts?
Yeah but most if not all of India was united against the British. They saw it as a potential military defeat if it did go sideways. The difference here is that Trump is wielding the government and zealous supporters against small marginalized groups of people.
If Britain decided to just murder people until everyone fell in line they would have had their asses kicked. If trump.does it he’d get it done pretty quickly.
Thanks for proving my point with India despite the nuance. I mean you are really just arguing for violence at this point.
I get it, it is pre-emptive violence to prevent future violence!
Back to the argument that moar guns will solve the problem though. I get it now, more guns equals more violence and random Internet guy frezik likes violence!
“Gandhi even said that he disagreed with their methods but believed that they’re committed patriots and that they’re right to refuse to take on the creed of nonviolence,” Ghosh said. “It’s very interdependent; you can’t tell the story of Gandhi without telling the story of the revolutionary terrorists.”
Yeah, I don’t think that proves your point at all.
“If the Negro succumbs to the temptation of using violence in his struggle for justice, unborn generations will be the recipients of a long and desolate night of bitterness, and his chief legacy to the future will be an endless rain of meaningless chaos.”
I heard his words and understood the significance. You pretend he would support a literal genocide on the American people through gun violence. It is sickening really.
I will never forget traveling to the East Coast when I was a teenager and seeing that the other side of the train tracks wasn’t just a saying. There were still restaurants blacks were not welcome at. The racism was palpable.
Bringing a good argument to a gunfight is unfortunately not a winning strategy. When the fascists have no qualms shooting you simply for being yourself, no amount of peaceful organizing is going to stop them. Peaceful protests and organizing only work because they have the implicit threat of violence if the demands are not met.
Yeah because that is what Martin Luther King Jr. would have wanted. We also have to ignore all the peaceful demonstrations throughout history to believe your line of reasoning.
I totally get you live in a fantasy world where moar guns are the only solution. I guess the good guys just magically kill the bad guys. Glad we got that all worked out.
Would you like to investigate what the Black Panthers did? The number of times they shot their guns in anger is very small, but having guns was integral to their strategy of protecting the rights of black people being harassed by police. They were so effective that they changed to rules to prevent them from using guns the way they did. There were little more than 100 Black Panthers around at the time.
Perhaps you’d like to have a broader view of history beyond peaceful protests? Peaceful and violent means of protest rarely exist alone, and are rarely effective alone.
India would like a word. I have a very broad view. The difference is people don’t always have to murder each other. In fact, murdering each other rarely brings about the kind a change we need in our society.
On today, the day we celebrate MLK Jr. maybe you could give peace a fucking chance. Tomorrow you can go back to being murderous gun nutter.
There were violent groups working for India’s independence against the British.
Which brings me to this: https://cup.columbia.edu/book/why-civil-resistance-works/9780231156837
This book sometimes gets framed as “this proves non-violent protest is always better”, but its text is far more nuanced than that. For any peaceful group that succeeds, you can find a more violent group working for the same goals. This is so consistent that making an academic case that peaceful protest works in isolation is an impossible task. For MLK, it was groups like the Black Panthers. For Gandhi, it was the Indian National Army.
Fascists would very much like it if you swallowed the idea that peaceful protest on its own is sufficient.
So if we come back tomorrow, do we get to argue without this shield around bad facts?
This is a really interesting thought.
Yeah but most if not all of India was united against the British. They saw it as a potential military defeat if it did go sideways. The difference here is that Trump is wielding the government and zealous supporters against small marginalized groups of people.
If Britain decided to just murder people until everyone fell in line they would have had their asses kicked. If trump.does it he’d get it done pretty quickly.
Thanks for proving my point with India despite the nuance. I mean you are really just arguing for violence at this point.
I get it, it is pre-emptive violence to prevent future violence!
Back to the argument that moar guns will solve the problem though. I get it now, more guns equals more violence and random Internet guy frezik likes violence!
Yeah, I don’t think that proves your point at all.
No one attributes the success of the movement in freeing India with violence even if it did happen.
You are really reaching trying to prove violence has a purpose. And that purpose is apparently to get you off.
Nobody attributes it, except for people who have studied it beyond pop culture.
Dr Martin Luther King Jr bought himself an arsenal. You may not have heard about that
“If the Negro succumbs to the temptation of using violence in his struggle for justice, unborn generations will be the recipients of a long and desolate night of bitterness, and his chief legacy to the future will be an endless rain of meaningless chaos.”
I heard his words and understood the significance. You pretend he would support a literal genocide on the American people through gun violence. It is sickening really.
And black people have such a great time in the states today!
I will never forget traveling to the East Coast when I was a teenager and seeing that the other side of the train tracks wasn’t just a saying. There were still restaurants blacks were not welcome at. The racism was palpable.