You think I’m naive for telling you how things work?
No, I think you’re an apologist for literal fascist enablers. That’s different than naive.
But hey, who needs to address any of the points raised? Certainly not you, it would seem.
What’s naive is going through this shit since the 80s and actually expecting electoralisim alone to change things. Newsflash, it hasn’t. The problems are more fundamental. Whining about someone else not putting work in is similarly unconvincing.
Again - what alternative to electoralism is being proposed, here? There’s fucking nothing, and no amount of suburban kids LARPing and high-fiving over how pure they are to their online buddies changes that. Sitting here and saying “Disinfecting the wound isn’t enough, it needs to be sutured”, and then proceeding to prevent anyone from disinfecting the wound and refusing to suture it (and, in this case, 2024, then proceeding to engage in ‘nonparticipation’, restraining the half-assed disinfectors from preventing a charlatan from rubbing his feces into the wound and proclaiming it healed) isn’t some noble fucking stand. It’s privileged shite from people who don’t seriously think they’ll be seeing any of the consequences of their actions.
Yeah, I could call you an apologist for genocide enablers if I wanted to spout inflammatory nonsense, but that was directly my point. Your entire argument about a lost election where you refuse to even consider that there are paths to resistance just because I haven’t named things like disruptive protests, boycotts, and general organization is counterproductive. This entire screed is counterproductive. Calling me a fascist enabler apologist when I’m obviously a leftist is the exact stupid games I was referring to in the first place. This is the stupidity.
Your entire argument about a lost election where you refuse to even consider that there are paths to resistance just because I haven’t named things like disruptive protests, boycotts, and general organization is counterproductive.
In what way are these alternatives to electoralism that have been strengthened by the victory of a literal fascist?
As I pointed out, we have been placed in a worse position for all forms of resistance by this loss - but you keep pretending that this is all part of some shift in resistance. It’s fucking not. But hey, who cares? You aren’t going to suffer, it’s just disadvantaged folk like me. Millions of us will suffer, and many of us will die, but that’s a sacrifice you’re willing to justify for the high, high reward of (checks notes) giving asspats to each other online. Fucking great. Love that this is what my death is going to enable. Thanks, o noble ‘leftists’.
Calling me a fascist enabler apologist when I’m obviously a leftist is the exact stupid games I was referring to in the first place.
This is very simple.
You are playing apologist for a group of people.
This group of people? Fascist enablers.
Thus, you are an apologist for fascist enablers.
Calling yourself a leftist is not some vaccine against that. Being a leftist is not some vaccine against that. A coat of red paint doesn’t change your behavior.
You can be willfully ignorant of my point as much as it makes you feel self righteous, but don’t for a second believe that this whining is accomplishing anything but ensuring that resistance remains divided and solidarity is impossible to achieve.
but don’t for a second believe that this whining is accomplishing anything but ensuring that resistance remains divided and solidarity is impossible to achieve.
Oh, you mean like how we remained divided in the election and now I have a good chance over the next four years of dying due to a fascist government coming into power? Wow, it’s cute how it’s super important to maintain solidarity through disagreements and even the condemnation of millions of people to death and oppression, until, you know, one of us damn dirty impure folk is asking for it from the purity brigade. Fascism in America is an acceptable compromise for personal purity, but everyone else should put aside all their little quibbles to join hands with fascist enablers! 😊
You really do feel entitled to the support of those thrown under the bus after offering none to them.
Your utter inability to see the irony in saying this, especially to someone who actually has a very good chance of being killed by the fascist regime, and thus whose stakes involved in this are significantly greater than losing the ability to virtue signal for another country’s genocide, is astounding.
By asking voters to not elect a fascist who is worse on their issue of choice than the non-fascist, I asked something ridiculous, apparently. I threw those voters I asked under the bus, and now they demand that I join hands with them in… doing nothing against the fascist regime, but giving them asspats for how ‘principled’ they are.
Yes I’m sure it lines up exactly with the imaginary image you’ve constructed of me in opposition to what I’ve said.
In response to your edit: I think I made it clear that I voted for Kamala but that it was expected that people would not vote to legitimize a government that was actively encouraging genocide, sometimes against their own people. That this somehow makes ME a hypocrite as a sticking point and not YOU for your fundamental inability to consider solidarity as a value is what makes this whole exchange laughable.
In response to your edit: I think I made it clear that I voted for Kamala but that it was expected that people would not vote to legitimize a government that was actively encouraging genocide, sometimes against their own people. That this somehow makes ME a hypocrite as a sticking point and not YOU for your fundamental inability to consider solidarity as a value is what makes this whole exchange laughable.
Oh cool, so now by them ‘standing up’ against the ‘legitimization’ of the government, we’re in a better place to oppose it, right?
Oh, we aren’t? We’re actually worse off in terms of our ability to oppose the government? And disadvantaged demographics are going to suffer for the purity games of the privileged? Just like I said when you tried to pull this dogshit argument earlier in this argument?
Fucking lovely.
Solidarity is all-important when it’s time to sabotage disadvantaged demographics, but it doesn’t seem to matter one fucking whit when there’s actually a chance to defend them. How curious.
Do I have to go back and quote you from the very start? You yourself admitted that, in your conception of their motivations, they regarded both outcomes of the election being genocide for Palestine; and so decided that it was, then, acceptable to embrace genocide in America in addition.
But hey, who needs introspection when you can play purity games while people like me get to go to the concentration camps, or be stripped of the already-meagre healthcare support available to the American poor? I can’t wait until I’m vomiting blood again because I can’t afford my medication. God, that was such a fun time. These next four years hold such promise of nostalgia in that sense.
But don’t worry - you and the people you defend, I’m sure you’ve got nothing to worry about.
No, I think you’re an apologist for literal fascist enablers. That’s different than naive.
But hey, who needs to address any of the points raised? Certainly not you, it would seem.
Again - what alternative to electoralism is being proposed, here? There’s fucking nothing, and no amount of suburban kids LARPing and high-fiving over how pure they are to their online buddies changes that. Sitting here and saying “Disinfecting the wound isn’t enough, it needs to be sutured”, and then proceeding to prevent anyone from disinfecting the wound and refusing to suture it (and, in this case, 2024, then proceeding to engage in ‘nonparticipation’, restraining the half-assed disinfectors from preventing a charlatan from rubbing his feces into the wound and proclaiming it healed) isn’t some noble fucking stand. It’s privileged shite from people who don’t seriously think they’ll be seeing any of the consequences of their actions.
Yeah, I could call you an apologist for genocide enablers if I wanted to spout inflammatory nonsense, but that was directly my point. Your entire argument about a lost election where you refuse to even consider that there are paths to resistance just because I haven’t named things like disruptive protests, boycotts, and general organization is counterproductive. This entire screed is counterproductive. Calling me a fascist enabler apologist when I’m obviously a leftist is the exact stupid games I was referring to in the first place. This is the stupidity.
In what way are these alternatives to electoralism that have been strengthened by the victory of a literal fascist?
As I pointed out, we have been placed in a worse position for all forms of resistance by this loss - but you keep pretending that this is all part of some shift in resistance. It’s fucking not. But hey, who cares? You aren’t going to suffer, it’s just disadvantaged folk like me. Millions of us will suffer, and many of us will die, but that’s a sacrifice you’re willing to justify for the high, high reward of (checks notes) giving asspats to each other online. Fucking great. Love that this is what my death is going to enable. Thanks, o noble ‘leftists’.
This is very simple.
You are playing apologist for a group of people.
This group of people? Fascist enablers.
Thus, you are an apologist for fascist enablers.
Calling yourself a leftist is not some vaccine against that. Being a leftist is not some vaccine against that. A coat of red paint doesn’t change your behavior.
You can be willfully ignorant of my point as much as it makes you feel self righteous, but don’t for a second believe that this whining is accomplishing anything but ensuring that resistance remains divided and solidarity is impossible to achieve.
Oh, you mean like how we remained divided in the election and now I have a good chance over the next four years of dying due to a fascist government coming into power? Wow, it’s cute how it’s super important to maintain solidarity through disagreements and even the condemnation of millions of people to death and oppression, until, you know, one of us damn dirty impure folk is asking for it from the purity brigade. Fascism in America is an acceptable compromise for personal purity, but everyone else should put aside all their little quibbles to join hands with fascist enablers! 😊
You really do feel entitled to the support of those thrown under the bus after offering none to them. It’s mind boggling.
Your utter inability to see the irony in saying this, especially to someone who actually has a very good chance of being killed by the fascist regime, and thus whose stakes involved in this are significantly greater than losing the ability to virtue signal for another country’s genocide, is astounding.
By asking voters to not elect a fascist who is worse on their issue of choice than the non-fascist, I asked something ridiculous, apparently. I threw those voters I asked under the bus, and now they demand that I join hands with them in… doing nothing against the fascist regime, but giving them asspats for how ‘principled’ they are.
Fanfuckingtastic.
Yes I’m sure it lines up exactly with the imaginary image you’ve constructed of me in opposition to what I’ve said.
In response to your edit: I think I made it clear that I voted for Kamala but that it was expected that people would not vote to legitimize a government that was actively encouraging genocide, sometimes against their own people. That this somehow makes ME a hypocrite as a sticking point and not YOU for your fundamental inability to consider solidarity as a value is what makes this whole exchange laughable.
Oh cool, so now by them ‘standing up’ against the ‘legitimization’ of the government, we’re in a better place to oppose it, right?
Oh, we aren’t? We’re actually worse off in terms of our ability to oppose the government? And disadvantaged demographics are going to suffer for the purity games of the privileged? Just like I said when you tried to pull this dogshit argument earlier in this argument?
Fucking lovely.
Solidarity is all-important when it’s time to sabotage disadvantaged demographics, but it doesn’t seem to matter one fucking whit when there’s actually a chance to defend them. How curious.
Do I have to go back and quote you from the very start? You yourself admitted that, in your conception of their motivations, they regarded both outcomes of the election being genocide for Palestine; and so decided that it was, then, acceptable to embrace genocide in America in addition.
But hey, who needs introspection when you can play purity games while people like me get to go to the concentration camps, or be stripped of the already-meagre healthcare support available to the American poor? I can’t wait until I’m vomiting blood again because I can’t afford my medication. God, that was such a fun time. These next four years hold such promise of nostalgia in that sense.
But don’t worry - you and the people you defend, I’m sure you’ve got nothing to worry about.