The narrative that OpenAI, Microsoft, and freshly minted White House “AI czar” David Sacks are now pushing to explain why DeepSeek was able to create a large language model that outpaces OpenAI’s while spending orders of magnitude less money and using older chips is that DeepSeek used OpenAI’s data unfairly and without compensation. Sound familiar?

Both Bloomberg and the Financial Times are reporting that Microsoft and OpenAI have been probing whether DeepSeek improperly trained the R1 model that is taking the AI world by storm on the outputs of OpenAI models.

It is, as many have already pointed out, incredibly ironic that OpenAI, a company that has been obtaining large amounts of data from all of humankind largely in an “unauthorized manner,” and, in some cases, in violation of the terms of service of those from whom they have been taking from, is now complaining about the very practices by which it has built its company.

OpenAI is currently being sued by the New York Times for training on its articles, and its argument is that this is perfectly fine under copyright law fair use protections.

“Training AI models using publicly available internet materials is fair use, as supported by long-standing and widely accepted precedents. We view this principle as fair to creators, necessary for innovators, and critical for US competitiveness,” OpenAI wrote in a blog post. In its motion to dismiss in court, OpenAI wrote “it has long been clear that the non-consumptive use of copyrighted material (like large language model training) is protected by fair use.”

OpenAI argues that it is legal for the company to train on whatever it wants for whatever reason it wants, then it stands to reason that it doesn’t have much of a leg to stand on when competitors use common strategies used in the world of machine learning to make their own models.

  • @Sanctus
    link
    English
    801 day ago

    It never did exist. This is the problem with the stock market.

    • Ulrich
      link
      fedilink
      English
      431 day ago

      That’s why “value” is in quotes. It’s not that it didn’t exist, is just that it’s purely speculative.

      Hell Nvidia’s stock plummeted as well, which makes no sense at all, considering Deepseek needs the same hardware as ChatGPT.

      Stock investing is just gambling on whatever is public opinion, which is notoriously difficult because people are largely dumb and irrational.

      • Pasta Dental
        link
        fedilink
        English
        211 day ago

        Hell Nvidia’s stock plummeted as well, which makes no sense at all, considering Deepseek needs the same hardware as ChatGPT.

        It’s the same hardware, the problem for them is that deepseek found a way to train their AI for much cheaper using a lot less than the hundreds of thousands of GPUs from Nvidia that openai, meta, xAi, anthropic etc. uses

        • Ulrich
          link
          fedilink
          English
          2
          edit-2
          1 day ago

          The way they found to train their AI cheaper isn’t novel, they just stole it from OpenAI (not that I care). They still need GPUs to process the prompts and generate the responses.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        101 day ago

        Hell Nvidia’s stock plummeted as well, which makes no sense at all, considering Deepseek needs the same hardware as ChatGPT.

        Common wisdom said that these models need CUDA to run properly, and DeepSeek doesn’t.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        5
        edit-2
        1 day ago

        they need less powerful and less hardware in general tho, they acted like they needed more

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          English
          41 day ago

          Chinese GPUs are not far behind in gflops. Nvidia advantage is CUDA, drivers, interconnection clusters.

          AFAIU, deepseek did use cuda.

          In general, computing advances have rarely resulted in using half the computers, though I could be wrong at the datacenter/hosting level at the maturity stage.

          • Fushuan [he/him]
            link
            fedilink
            English
            422 hours ago

            Not cuda, but a lower level nvidia proprietary API, your point still stands though.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        123 hours ago

        “valuation” I suppose. The “value” that we project onto something whether that something has truly earned it.