Swedish embassy in Baghdad stormed, set alight over Koran burning plans
www.reuters.com
Hundreds of protesters stormed the Swedish embassy in central Baghdad in the early hours of Thursday morning, scaling its walls and setting it on fire in protest against the expected burning of a Koran in Sweden.
  • @[email protected]English
    6•1 year ago

    which lists religious belief as a group covered by the law

    If followers of a denomination of the Invisible pink unicorn (bbHhh) are provoked by people wearing pink clothes because one of their holy books says such people should receive the death penalty, does that therefor make wearing pink clothes illegal in Sweden?

    • sarjalimEnglish
      4•1 year ago

      No, it doesn’t? Laws are interpreted by legal practitioners and judges, and the intentionality of the law is taken into account. One of the main intentions of this particular law is protecting Jews from persecution, and protecting Muslims from the same isn’t a huge stretch. Sure, you could argue that invisible pink unicorn followers are a protected group, but no one would take you seriously in Sweden. You are arguing an extreme interpretation in bad faith.

      • @[email protected]English
        1•1 year ago

        Yes, but the law you proposed would allow that to happen. That isn’t a straw man, it’s your proposed idea not being very good.

        • sarjalimEnglish
          4•1 year ago

          It’s not my proposed idea, it’s an actual, contemporary Swedish law which has existed since 1948. What is up for debate is how that law is to be interpreted in this instance, what constitutes “creed” (in, perhaps, a better translation of the original Swedish instead of “religious belief”), and what constitutes a “message” and whether burning a Quran is valid criticism of Islam or if doing it at that time and place is a hate crime targeting Muslims. It hasn’t been tried in the Swedish supreme court whether Quran burning in certain contexts like the recent events is illegal under that law or not.

          Technically, sure, you could argue that everything can be a religious belief/creed and any belief is covered under that law. But that is not how the law is interpreted and used in practice. I would consider that a strawman argument then, because it intentionally misrepresents the spirit of that law.

          • @[email protected]English
            2•1 year ago

            That makes sense. I guess I don’t really see the point of the law. If a message of hate goes too far, it would already fall other applicable laws against harassment or discrimination. Why does there need to be legislation specifically protecting against hate crimes?

            • sarjalimEnglish
              1•1 year ago

              I mean, that’s a matter of personal opinion (and you are entitled to yours). Legality aside, I personally think some groups should have special protections as they are often targets of discrimination or harassment specifically because of their affiliation with a certain group. That includes race/ethnicity, religion, sexuality, gender identity etc.

              Of course, these people are also individually protected from harassment and discrimination through other laws as you say, but the incitement law protects them as a group and from being targeted in certain ways. You are allowed to publicly protest against Judaism, but not to publicly wear swastikas (a symbol of the horror of the Holocaust).

              • @[email protected]English
                2•1 year ago

                I understand that mindset and agree with its validity (especially the Holocaust example). I think putting that into law effectively is extremely difficult, as many people would draw the lines differently as to what should be applicable.

                • sarjalimEnglish
                  2•1 year ago

                  I actually agree, it’s a problem. As other people also argued here, the existing law is perhaps too fuzzy even though I personally agree with the sentiment (and do believe it is applicable as-is in the recent Quran cases).

                  Laws can sometimes be intentionally written broadly as to cover future unanticipated cases, but for the recent events it’s not clear what is covered and what isn’t covered. That has to be tried in court to set a precedent then, and that hasn’t been done. And part of why it hasn’t been done seems to be that the prosecutors are unsure of how their case will go in court, so they choose not to prosecute… At least that’s how I have understood it.

    • proleEnglish
      -4•1 year ago

      If you feign ignorance, and pretend that you don’t know the difference between a belief held by billions of humans, and some corny, uncreative shit you just came up with off the top of your head, does that therefore make you an actual dumbass?

      • @[email protected]English
        9•1 year ago

        If it were a Bible or a Torah that was burned we wouldn’t be having this conversation now because it wouldn’t have even made the news. There is only one major religion that reacts violently to incidents like this. I think that’s the point OP was making and it’s a valid one.

        • proleEnglish
          5•1 year ago

          Way to completely miss (or ignore) the point I made.

          But you’re right, Christians have never committed violence in the name of their faith… Lol

        • BloopsEnglish
          2•1 year ago

          Actually there may very well have been news about a public Torah burning, considering the rise in anti-Semitism across the world has a lot of people worried. And a bible burning could easily go viral on Christian nationalist social media and news stations across America.