Except that by misgendering her you’re causing harm to the trans community as a whole. We don’t misgender cisgender people when they are bad people. Misgendering transgender people who do bad things only shows that respecting transgender identity is conditional and can be revoked by other people. It’s not. It’s who we are. Even if someone is a trash fire human being they still should be gendered correctly.
Transphobes will read comments misgendering or deadnaming Caitlyn and cheer along. There are far, far better ways to vocalize disapproval of her. Ways that don’t hurt other trans people.
I appreciate your point. A few months ago I was in a discussion with someone on Lemmy about the strategy of maliciously complying with someone that has insincerely stated a preference for neo-pronouns. The example in the discussion was Elon Musk claiming “prosecute/Fauci” as pronouns, but insincere pronouns aren’t necessarily so easily spotted. (My position was and is that it’s okay to maliciously comply with someone’s professed pronouns to demonstrate that person’s insincerity)
If you’re not tired of tutoring ignorant allies I’d really appreciate your opinion on that dilemma.
The concept is that normalizing dead naming as an insult will result in a cascading effect that harms trans people across the board, right? I’m not trans, but it should be pretty obvious - dead naming is dead naming even if you’re a piece of shit liar.
I thought the “phobia” part was relevant but in looking up definitions of transphobia and homophobia I see that, etymologically, the phobia part seems to be irrelevant. TIL!
I would, if she were to go out with a public opinion that it was okay for trump&allies to call black people removeds and sell them into slavery. I wouldn’t do it on a public internet forum, most likely, but I would do it to her face. It’s following the (her, in this example) premise to its natural conclusion and it’s supposed to be extremely jarring and uncomfortable. It’s similar to satire, where it takes trust to know that the person ‘performing’ isn’t actually espousing what is being acted… which is why an internet forum like here, where nobody trusts nada, isn’t the proper place to do it. Directly responding to them on bluesky like there? More acceptable.
Not exactly. If anything it’s conditional on you not selling your allies/kin down the river.
Except that by misgendering her you’re causing harm to the trans community as a whole. We don’t misgender cisgender people when they are bad people. Misgendering transgender people who do bad things only shows that respecting transgender identity is conditional and can be revoked by other people. It’s not. It’s who we are. Even if someone is a trash fire human being they still should be gendered correctly.
Transphobes will read comments misgendering or deadnaming Caitlyn and cheer along. There are far, far better ways to vocalize disapproval of her. Ways that don’t hurt other trans people.
We don’t? I could have sworn cisgender people do that to insult each other all the time. It’s like a classic insult.
Discussing acceptable insults, while technically possible, seems somewhat irrational. The concept of an ethical insult doesn’t make total sense.
It all boils down to the very common phenomenon of thinking certain people, “bad people,” are worthy of any form of attack available.
I appreciate your point. A few months ago I was in a discussion with someone on Lemmy about the strategy of maliciously complying with someone that has insincerely stated a preference for neo-pronouns. The example in the discussion was Elon Musk claiming “prosecute/Fauci” as pronouns, but insincere pronouns aren’t necessarily so easily spotted. (My position was and is that it’s okay to maliciously comply with someone’s professed pronouns to demonstrate that person’s insincerity)
If you’re not tired of tutoring ignorant allies I’d really appreciate your opinion on that dilemma.
The concept is that normalizing dead naming as an insult will result in a cascading effect that harms trans people across the board, right? I’m not trans, but it should be pretty obvious - dead naming is dead naming even if you’re a piece of shit liar.
Rights for one are rights for all. Even elmo
ßtop saying that. That’s a pile of shit. BRUCE is the problem, not your allies.
I’m not disagreeing on morality of misgendering. I’m disagreeing that the misgendering is conditional on agreement.
I don’t want to sound mean with this I’m sure you mean the best but this isn’t a debate
Deadnaming and/or misgendering someone purposefully is transphobia and doing it because they’re a bad person is still transphobia
As a trans person I’m saying that if you are transphobic to someone even if they’re bad is conditional acceptance whether you mean it that way or not
People were deadnaming her in the comments, that’s transphobia not an opinion
This is not what I am disagreeing with you on. I am in full agreement here.
Im disagreeing on this point. It isn’t simply because they’re a bad person.
Agreed
What’s the difference between transphobia and bigotry?
I think you might mean bigotry, albeit a very specific kind.
Yes, and that very specific kind of bigotry is called transphobia…
I thought the “phobia” part was relevant but in looking up definitions of transphobia and homophobia I see that, etymologically, the phobia part seems to be irrelevant. TIL!
would you call Candace Owens the n word? bigotry is about you, not the person you subject it to.
I would, if she were to go out with a public opinion that it was okay for trump&allies to call black people removeds and sell them into slavery. I wouldn’t do it on a public internet forum, most likely, but I would do it to her face. It’s following the (her, in this example) premise to its natural conclusion and it’s supposed to be extremely jarring and uncomfortable. It’s similar to satire, where it takes trust to know that the person ‘performing’ isn’t actually espousing what is being acted… which is why an internet forum like here, where nobody trusts nada, isn’t the proper place to do it. Directly responding to them on bluesky like there? More acceptable.
I would not