Its honestly disgusting how much you try to explain away disproportionate grain quotas so much that you mass starve the very people producing your food and are conveniently also trying to subjugate as unintentional. I’m sure you have lovely things to say about the Irish potato famine as not being genocide too. It’s only genocide when checks notes the imperialists I don’t like do it.
Genocide doesn’t have to be sophisticated, systematic, and performed with guns to be effective. I didn’t compare this situation to the holocaust for a reason.
Intent is a wishy washy excuse when the reality is targeted death of a specific subjugated people. It’s how everyone tries to weasel out of being accused of genocide. Israel doesn’t want to kill all of the Palestinians. Its not their intent. They just want the land and mass Palestinian death is just an unintended side effect. If I roll my eyes any harder I’ll lose them to the back of my head.
but lets look to Raphael Lemkin who is the one credited with coming up with the term genocide:
What I want to speak about is perhaps the classic example of Soviet genocide, its longest and broadest experiment in Russification — the destruction of the Ukrainian nation
The fact that you speak of Ukrainians as “people to subjugate” really tells of how little understanding you have of the topic. Comparing a historically colonial region like Ireland, to an area literally liberated and given a nationality, borders, education in their language and press in their language such as Ukraine, is absurd. You have no fucking idea what imperialism is, and it shows very severely. Go read a book lmao
Ukraine was literally saved from Nazism and from Russian/Polish imperialism by the USSR, but you’re a fake socialist who’s never read a fucking book, who glorifies useless leaders who never got to power and never had to face the realities of class war, and replicates US state department propaganda
Forcing a people to be part of your system against their wishes is subjugation. The Ukrainians wanted independence. They literally fought for it and lost. Excusing genocide because there was some bonus education is disgusting. Excusing imperialism because you like the perks makes you an imperialist.
Forcing a people to be part of your system against their wishes
Source: Ukrainian nationalist propaganda.
The Ukrainians wanted independence. They literally fought for it and lost
A part of the population in a small region of Ukraine wanted anarchism, and was promptly defeated by communists in the context of a civil war against fascism because anarchy doesn’t work. Ukrainians should thank the soviets for the ensuing industrialisation that allowed the defeat of the Nazis, a sparse set of agricultural communes would have been exterminated by Nazis. Anarchists simply don’t understand this, and refuse to understand the historical and material conditions that surround them in favour of idealism, which is why their projects don’t live long enough to see widespread adoption anywhere.
Excusing genocide
The lack of prior attempts, the lack or motives, the lack of intent, the fact that it was a famine in a particular event of land collectivisation, and the fact that there was no continuation over time, prove it wasn’t a genocide. I’m not excusing genocide because there wasn’t, I’m criticising poor collectivisation policy which led to famine both inside and outside Ukraine.
Excusing imperialism
Consolidating socialism in a region isn’t imperialism, which you’d know, again, if you had read any socialist literature. But you’d rather go with your vibes-based Reddit leftism.
Its honestly disgusting how much you try to explain away disproportionate grain quotas so much that you mass starve the very people producing your food and are conveniently also trying to subjugate as unintentional. I’m sure you have lovely things to say about the Irish potato famine as not being genocide too. It’s only genocide when checks notes the imperialists I don’t like do it.
Genocide doesn’t have to be sophisticated, systematic, and performed with guns to be effective. I didn’t compare this situation to the holocaust for a reason.
Intent is a wishy washy excuse when the reality is targeted death of a specific subjugated people. It’s how everyone tries to weasel out of being accused of genocide. Israel doesn’t want to kill all of the Palestinians. Its not their intent. They just want the land and mass Palestinian death is just an unintended side effect. If I roll my eyes any harder I’ll lose them to the back of my head.
but lets look to Raphael Lemkin who is the one credited with coming up with the term genocide:
The fact that you speak of Ukrainians as “people to subjugate” really tells of how little understanding you have of the topic. Comparing a historically colonial region like Ireland, to an area literally liberated and given a nationality, borders, education in their language and press in their language such as Ukraine, is absurd. You have no fucking idea what imperialism is, and it shows very severely. Go read a book lmao
Ukraine was literally saved from Nazism and from Russian/Polish imperialism by the USSR, but you’re a fake socialist who’s never read a fucking book, who glorifies useless leaders who never got to power and never had to face the realities of class war, and replicates US state department propaganda
OK genocide apologist.
Forcing a people to be part of your system against their wishes is subjugation. The Ukrainians wanted independence. They literally fought for it and lost. Excusing genocide because there was some bonus education is disgusting. Excusing imperialism because you like the perks makes you an imperialist.
Source: Ukrainian nationalist propaganda.
A part of the population in a small region of Ukraine wanted anarchism, and was promptly defeated by communists in the context of a civil war against fascism because anarchy doesn’t work. Ukrainians should thank the soviets for the ensuing industrialisation that allowed the defeat of the Nazis, a sparse set of agricultural communes would have been exterminated by Nazis. Anarchists simply don’t understand this, and refuse to understand the historical and material conditions that surround them in favour of idealism, which is why their projects don’t live long enough to see widespread adoption anywhere.
The lack of prior attempts, the lack or motives, the lack of intent, the fact that it was a famine in a particular event of land collectivisation, and the fact that there was no continuation over time, prove it wasn’t a genocide. I’m not excusing genocide because there wasn’t, I’m criticising poor collectivisation policy which led to famine both inside and outside Ukraine.
Consolidating socialism in a region isn’t imperialism, which you’d know, again, if you had read any socialist literature. But you’d rather go with your vibes-based Reddit leftism.