Not enough that I’m trans-positive, NB-positive, and genderfluid-positive. One must be Dragon-positive.
It seems crazy to me how you can be casually labelled “transphobic” and instance banned for having a perfectly rational discussion about neopronouns on another instance, even though you have consistently not misgendered anyone, including Drag. I guess the “pre-crime” thought police are on the case. It’s not enough that one follows their instance rules, no questioning or discussion of the rules will be tolerated either. Oh well, it’s their loss.
Sometimes I will very pettily ping someone I had a previous disagreement with, if something reminds me of them, or what we argued about. Is that weird?
I don’t think that that’s weird (for arguments it is a bit petty, but I also understand the urge to be petty - ‘It’ll never happen’, huh? READ IT AND WEEP), but calling an admin from another instance and requesting to ban someone who doesn’t go to your instance at all is.
It’s like being the weird guy who calls the cops to report everything their neighbor does.
And in this case, the cops made an arrest because the pile of leaves in the yard were in the shape of a pentagram (displaying intent to Unlawfully Summon, no doubt).
It’s important to consider that misgendering isn’t the only kind of hurt trans people can experience online. Ada explicitly created LBZ to be a comfortable space for all trans people, and part of that includes addressing the agony that is logging in to see yours and other’s validity questioned at every turn.
I agree, Pug is not a transphobe. I think Ada agrees with me too. That’s why the modlog doesn’t show “transphobe,” it says “gatekeeping.” I agree that the users calling Pug a transphobe are taking it too far. Pug is simply a bad ally that refuses to admit trans people might know how they want to be treated and the kind of space they want to exist in.
That’s totally okay! You don’t need to understand. :) The admins are simply asking users not to “take it to the streets,” so to speak, as it can make the whole instance feel more uncomfortable and toxic. They encouraged us to report and block users who were causing issues, which we did, so those users are now banned. This way, we avoided creating unnecessary discourse and potential honeypots for bigotry, which is really the main idea here.
Gotta defend your actions in the eyes of an admin you treat as despotic and whom you vowed to leave behind months ago. Very important. ;)
Ada wasn’t involved in the conversation at all before the bans. And I hadn’t posted on Blahaj since ‘months ago’. Which are amongst many reasons why this whole incident is weird.
They are getting lumped together because that’s the context of what OP did. OP has received mod action twice, both times for making directed commentary on the validity of another person’s gender (aka disrespecting).
But yeah, I think curbstickle misread your intent–you are both in the right here there’s just some miscommunication, Hopefully this clarifies. :)
Yes, you are missing the larger context, but I appreciate the question. :) The larger context is that the LBZ admin is an older trans woman herself, and knows how the patterns of transphobia play out in online spaces. She recognizes that, whether or not Person X is “genuine” or “valid” in their gender identity, allowing people to scream “Identity X isn’t real” or similar in response to their mere existence is dangerous in that it makes the site worse and more toxic for every “genuine” or “valid” trans person.
Whether or not species and gender are two different things is largely irrelevant here, because we’re simply talking the context of keeping a sane and non-violent space for trans people. Most spaces take a more relaxed approach because they are not made by or for trans people, and that’s totally fine. But Ada, as a trans person, has chosen the more unique method of just blanket-banning any questioning or directed criticism of other users’ gender (which she labels “gatekeeping”) in order to keep the space peaceful and respectful.
And the thing is, whatever you or OP thinks about it, it works. That’s why you’ll see so many people defend Ada. Are there some assholes out there intentionally making a mockery of gender diversity? For sure! But does it help trans people to throw insults and yell about it in their spaces, instead of quietly blocking and reporting? For many, the answer is a resounding no.
Genuinely hope this helps! I get the vibe you are asking these questions with sincerity, so I am putting in the effort for ya here. :)
Thank you, I think I understand what you’re getting at, at least from the perspective of preemptively trying to get ahead of something perceived as threatening to a community as a whole.
I mean, I may not necessarily agree with all aspects of the situation as a whole, but the logic on behalf of the admin actions I think I can put myself in the shoes of.
Yes, you are missing the larger context, but I appreciate the question. :) The larger context is that the LBZ admin is an older trans woman herself, and knows how the patterns of transphobia play out in online spaces. She recognizes that, whether or not Person X is “genuine” or “valid” in their gender identity, allowing people to scream “Identity X isn’t real” or similar in response to their mere existence is dangerous in that it makes the site worse and more toxic for every “genuine” or “valid” trans person.
And when ‘dogfucker’ is next, it will be insisted that their gender is valid too, because by refusing to acknowledge any definition of the term, you turn gender itself into an empty mockery.
But does it help trans people to throw insults and yell about it in their spaces, instead of quietly blocking and reporting?
Yes, why do that when you can quietly report and ban anyone who disagrees with the gender of dragonfucker.
“Not understanding” doesnt mean “dont respect them” though.
I don’t get it either, but it costs me absolutely nothing to use a neopronoun or anything else.
If you dont understand, you could either try to understand, or just use someone’s neopronouns and move on. Or not reply at all.
Okay, but as I noted, I used Drag’s pronouns. I don’t remember ever using the wrong pronouns for Drag, though I’m sure a ‘they’ or the like slipped in in some deeply buried comment.
The issue becomes whether gender has any limits for what it means. I objected to both the fantastic and the species. For that reason, on another instance, in a discussion that did not involve Drag or Blahaj admins, I was banned from a bunch of comms that I hadn’t even commented in in months.
I didn’t say that, but I do think it would be good for you to reconsider your wording, especially considering you admit to not understanding, and then acknowledged later the relation to trans feelings and how the two can be related.
But I’m not a “ban them” kind of guy. I’m more of a “remove their comment and explain” kind of guy.
My comment wasn’t intended to suggest that being trans is a form of gender cosplay, so I apologize if that was how it read.
However, I will stand behind my statement that identifying as a totally different species is indeed pure fantasy that makes no real world sense to me.
I do support it in the same vein that I support all creativity and fun. Furries-- fuck if I understand that, but if no one (or animal) is getting hurt, go wild and have a great time.
That being said, if I was asked by a furry to only refer to them as a dog or cat in all real world scenarios because that’s the species they identify as, I simply cannot pander and think it’s a pretty unreasonable and fantastical expectation.
It seems crazy to me how you can be casually labelled “transphobic” and instance banned for having a perfectly rational discussion about neopronouns on another instance, even though you have consistently not misgendered anyone, including Drag. I guess the “pre-crime” thought police are on the case. It’s not enough that one follows their instance rules, no questioning or discussion of the rules will be tolerated either. Oh well, it’s their loss.
The admin summon was one of the more bizarre parts.
Yeah I agree with you on that count too.
Sometimes I will very pettily ping someone I had a previous disagreement with, if something reminds me of them, or what we argued about. Is that weird?
I don’t think that that’s weird (for arguments it is a bit petty, but I also understand the urge to be petty - ‘It’ll never happen’, huh? READ IT AND WEEP), but calling an admin from another instance and requesting to ban someone who doesn’t go to your instance at all is.
It’s like being the weird guy who calls the cops to report everything their neighbor does.
And in this case, the cops made an arrest because the pile of leaves in the yard were in the shape of a pentagram (displaying intent to Unlawfully Summon, no doubt).
Question, if someone pinged an admin to ban someone for being something dbzer0 doesn’t want/like, would that be a step too far?
You want me to ban Kerfuffled?
Kerfuffled™
I just got banned from blahaj for mistrademarking you, hope you’re happy.
I’m happy I called dibs and that’s definitely how trademarks work.
No, just asking as they are my admin.
Why does this feel like a gotcha?
It’s not. If someone pinged you or the admins for violating the instance rules, would that be accepted?
Well it’s one way to do it, but a report is usually preferable imo.
It would be bizarre on the part of the pinger, at the very least.
Fair
It’s important to consider that misgendering isn’t the only kind of hurt trans people can experience online. Ada explicitly created LBZ to be a comfortable space for all trans people, and part of that includes addressing the agony that is logging in to see yours and other’s validity questioned at every turn.
I agree, Pug is not a transphobe. I think Ada agrees with me too. That’s why the modlog doesn’t show “transphobe,” it says “gatekeeping.” I agree that the users calling Pug a transphobe are taking it too far. Pug is simply a bad ally that refuses to admit trans people might know how they want to be treated and the kind of space they want to exist in.
I guess I don’t understand the correlation between being transgendered, and wanting to cosplay a totally different and fantastical species?
That’s totally okay! You don’t need to understand. :) The admins are simply asking users not to “take it to the streets,” so to speak, as it can make the whole instance feel more uncomfortable and toxic. They encouraged us to report and block users who were causing issues, which we did, so those users are now banned. This way, we avoided creating unnecessary discourse and potential honeypots for bigotry, which is really the main idea here.
Or anyone else’s streets, apparently.
Preemptive bans are preemptive bans. Not the first time or server where this has happened, not the last. 👍
Gotta pre-empt someone who’s already left. Very important.
Gotta defend your actions in the eyes of an admin you treat as despotic and whom you vowed to leave behind months ago. Very important. ;)
Ada wasn’t involved in the conversation at all before the bans. And I hadn’t posted on Blahaj since ‘months ago’. Which are amongst many reasons why this whole incident is weird.
“Not understanding” doesnt mean “dont respect them” though.
I don’t get it either, but it costs me absolutely nothing to use a neopronoun or anything else.
If you dont understand, you could either try to understand, or just use someone’s neopronouns and move on. Or not reply at all.
That wasn’t my question though. Why are they getting lumped together?
It was more of “being a dick for no reason” than a question, and I’m not an expert.
That said, I’d say because their physical body doesn’t match how they feel on the inside. Which is definitely something trans folks experience.
Okay, I can see the overlap with that last part. Thank you for the perspective.
They are getting lumped together because that’s the context of what OP did. OP has received mod action twice, both times for making directed commentary on the validity of another person’s gender (aka disrespecting).
But yeah, I think curbstickle misread your intent–you are both in the right here there’s just some miscommunication, Hopefully this clarifies. :)
Aren’t species and gender two wildly different things? Or am I misunderstanding the larger context?
Yes, you are missing the larger context, but I appreciate the question. :) The larger context is that the LBZ admin is an older trans woman herself, and knows how the patterns of transphobia play out in online spaces. She recognizes that, whether or not Person X is “genuine” or “valid” in their gender identity, allowing people to scream “Identity X isn’t real” or similar in response to their mere existence is dangerous in that it makes the site worse and more toxic for every “genuine” or “valid” trans person.
Whether or not species and gender are two different things is largely irrelevant here, because we’re simply talking the context of keeping a sane and non-violent space for trans people. Most spaces take a more relaxed approach because they are not made by or for trans people, and that’s totally fine. But Ada, as a trans person, has chosen the more unique method of just blanket-banning any questioning or directed criticism of other users’ gender (which she labels “gatekeeping”) in order to keep the space peaceful and respectful.
And the thing is, whatever you or OP thinks about it, it works. That’s why you’ll see so many people defend Ada. Are there some assholes out there intentionally making a mockery of gender diversity? For sure! But does it help trans people to throw insults and yell about it in their spaces, instead of quietly blocking and reporting? For many, the answer is a resounding no.
Genuinely hope this helps! I get the vibe you are asking these questions with sincerity, so I am putting in the effort for ya here. :)
Thank you, I think I understand what you’re getting at, at least from the perspective of preemptively trying to get ahead of something perceived as threatening to a community as a whole.
I mean, I may not necessarily agree with all aspects of the situation as a whole, but the logic on behalf of the admin actions I think I can put myself in the shoes of.
And when ‘dogfucker’ is next, it will be insisted that their gender is valid too, because by refusing to acknowledge any definition of the term, you turn gender itself into an empty mockery.
Yes, why do that when you can quietly report and ban anyone who disagrees with the gender of dragonfucker.
Okay, but as I noted, I used Drag’s pronouns. I don’t remember ever using the wrong pronouns for Drag, though I’m sure a ‘they’ or the like slipped in in some deeply buried comment.
The issue becomes whether gender has any limits for what it means. I objected to both the fantastic and the species. For that reason, on another instance, in a discussion that did not involve Drag or Blahaj admins, I was banned from a bunch of comms that I hadn’t even commented in in months.
I wasn’t talking about you, I was referring to calling neopronouns “cosplaying”. Its intentionally disrespectful.
You want me to ban myself?
Did you ban yourself? lol
I didn’t say that, but I do think it would be good for you to reconsider your wording, especially considering you admit to not understanding, and then acknowledged later the relation to trans feelings and how the two can be related.
But I’m not a “ban them” kind of guy. I’m more of a “remove their comment and explain” kind of guy.
My comment wasn’t intended to suggest that being trans is a form of gender cosplay, so I apologize if that was how it read.
However, I will stand behind my statement that identifying as a totally different species is indeed pure fantasy that makes no real world sense to me.
I do support it in the same vein that I support all creativity and fun. Furries-- fuck if I understand that, but if no one (or animal) is getting hurt, go wild and have a great time.
That being said, if I was asked by a furry to only refer to them as a dog or cat in all real world scenarios because that’s the species they identify as, I simply cannot pander and think it’s a pretty unreasonable and fantastical expectation.
Wesker didn’t mention neopronouns, though?
No, just an offhanded comment about them cosplaying.
Would you say that a trans woman was “cosplaying being a woman”?
No, but I’d say anyone who claimed to be a dragon was, at best, cosplaying being a dragon.
On account of dragons not being real, for one.
Yes, you just think I want to “do gender-based harassment” of trans folk.
What does transphobia mean, again?