Keep in mind this works both ways. The progressive outrage machine is arguably even more active than the conservative machine. Look at the reaction to Sound of Freedom. An extremely neutral movie when you consider the politics of its content. But the main actor is a conspiracy theorist, so I guess that means the movie is a far right propaganda vehicle? By that logic most movies are far left propaganda vehicles.
A similar phenomenon has always followed Trump around. Media gets insane hits for anti-Trump content. Some people built entire careers off of reporting on his tweets. The more shocking and exaggerated they could make the content, the more money came flooding in. That’s why so much of the coverage of Trump was sensationalized and uncharitable. It’s also why moderates couldn’t help but root for him. There’s only so much the established powers that be can lie about someone before you want to support him regardless of his character flaws. It helped that his policies were generally great, focusing on anti-war and populist market adjustments.
This is why you should always take the news with a grain of salt. They’re all out to make money, and they all have agendas.
Wish I could give more than one upvote given that the balanced view you present is obviously controversial amongst a Reddit crowd.
I think the other thing that maybe people need to remember is that there’s pretty much always someone further left than you, and there’s a good chance they consider you a conservative. There’s always another further out there idea, and in that way a lot of people who used to be lefties turned into conservatives simply by not picking up on the new thing. Then it’s guilt by association, instead of just being one tick less progressive, people end up getting tired with all of the worst brushes.
Another thing that is a reality that isn’t going to make a lot of people happy is virtually every culture has conservatives of some kind. There are conservatives in africa, and in asia – there’s a lot of conservatives in Asia in fact. There’s conservatives amongst the Jews, there’s conservatives amongst the Indians and in the Middle East. And not all of that conservatism comes from one place.
The world is a lot more complicated than people seem to think, and we’re starting to see that coming to fruition because not everyone who opposes Western liberal conservatism is a western liberal.
I think it’s important to first define it in a political context first. For example, current Conservatives in political context in the US would mean a far right voter who actually believes 2020 election was stolen. Probably also believes the attack on the Capitol was the most peaceful protests in history. Anyone else well sure could be considered on the left by conservatives.
Though, I agree sure far right or far left and anyone a tick away can be considered the opposite. However, there are other political views that try to land somewhere on the middle. The political compass.
I think the other thing that maybe people need to remember is that there’s pretty much always someone further left than you, and there’s a good chance they consider you a conservative.
💯
This could not be more true:
I’m “liberal” and “progressive”. I’ve never voted for my countries “conservatives”, in fact I’ve voted for independants that many would call “far left” more than I’ve voted for our regular “left” recently. I voted YES in our referendum for gay marriage. I’m all for “gender identity” in adults if that’s what makes you happy.
I do not, however, think children should be given “gender affirming care”, so that makes me a “bigot”, “far right”, a “nazi”, a “trumper”, and a “conservative” according to those too far gone on the left. If you won’t let a kid get a tattoo then you shouldn’t let a kid cut any perfectly good body parts off, or stunt their body and minds growth with “puberty blockers” aka chemical castration. If you won’t trust a kids opinion enough to let them vote, don’t let them make decisions that are life altering.
I didn’t know who Matt Walsh was, but Googling him these tweets are the first things that popped up. I can see why people react badly to him.
This is a good time to remember that feminism has killed far more people than the atomic bomb. It is perhaps the most destructive force in human history. Trans ideology, its off shoot, is competing for the title.
I was already looking forward to watching Oppenheimer but then I saw a bunch of people on Twitter complaining that it mostly features white men and it isn’t inclusive enough and now I’m even more looking forward to watching it
“Just because there are two sides doesn’t mean they both have points worth listening to.”
I’m well aware of what the right’s “side” is. It’s bigoted and out of date. Unless they suddenly start accepting people for who they are I don’t need to give them any more of my time or thoughts. That’s not being “dug in” or “stubborn”, it means I’m saying no to hating people and they need to change their stance if they want to get me to vote for them ever again.
Jesus what a stupid take, to actually believe that liberals are “experimenting on children”. Seriously. Stop and really really think to yourself if that’s happening. What, is this some horror movie with a terrified child with a single bulb swinging overhead, while the doctor evilly rubs his hands together. “Ah ha, yes, now to destroy traditional America evil laugh”
Surgeries, gender altering surgeries, are usually held off until 18, and if they’re not I really don’t understand why the government needs to have a say in something that a parent and child decide on. Drugs, puberty blockers have no long term effects and even then again, why does the government need to step in and say what a doctor should or not prescribe when the parents have been informed. and even then these are usually the minority of trans kids, and even then most parents do in fact have rules in place to wait until 18.
You know really what most liberals want? For people to be comfortable with themselves. To not have big government tell them that if they feel more comfortable wearing jeans and a tshirt over a dress that they should be allowed to. That if a child says “I don’t like playing with monster trucks, can I play with a doll instead?” that we can say yes, absolutely you can.
I truly don’t understand how anyone can be against that. I really don’t understand why people think they need to have a say in how other people raise children. This all from the party of “small government”, but then demands that they raise children a certain way.
But I’m sure by now you’ve completely ignored my point, and you have more fox news rage bait responses readied up to fire back at me. Please, tell me how you want big federal government to tell us what to do.
Jesus what a stupid take, to actually believe that liberals are “experimenting on children”.
What would you call it? It’s using drugs for reasons they’re not approved for, to do surgeries that have massive lists of complications and even without complications will require literal daily care for the rest of their life, when there are no long term studies done on either of these things. The long term effects of “puberty blockers” are unknown. It’s literal experimentation at this stage because there have been no long term studies. How is it not experimenting? We do know however that they’re not 100% reversible - you just need to look at many transgender people that took them to see that. Boys that were “girls” that are now sterile thanks to taking puberty blockers and HRT, etc.
Surgeries, gender altering surgeries, are usually held off until 18, and if they’re not I really don’t understand why the government needs to have a say in something that a parent and child decide on.
“Usually” doesn’t cut it. You don’t understand why life altering elective surgeries shouldn’t be government regulated? A child cannot consent to these surgeries or treatments. They do not have the mental capacity to do so. Let me ask you this - would you let a 10 year old get a tattoo? What if they really want it, and their parents are ok with it? You think they should be able to go and get a nice big dragon tattoo on the side of their head?
puberty blockers have no long term effects
This has been disproven time and time again. You can’t just “pause” puberty and then have it pick up right where it left off, it doesn’t work that way, physically or mentally. The NHS for example changed their literature from “The effects of treatment with GnRH analogues are considered to be fully reversible” to “Little is known about the long-term side effects of hormone or puberty blockers in children with gender dysphoria. Although the Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS) advises this is a physically reversible treatment if stopped, it is not known what the psychological effects may be. It’s also not known whether hormone blockers affect the development of the teenage brain or children’s bones. Side effects may also include hot flushes, fatigue and mood alterations.”. Other countries have now started doing the same. Why would they be doing this if “the science is settled”?
To not have big government tell them that if they feel more comfortable wearing jeans and a tshirt over a dress that they should be allowed to. That if a child says “I don’t like playing with monster trucks, can I play with a doll instead?” that we can say yes, absolutely you can.
The problem is that no one is telling kids that if they’re a boy they have to play with a monster truck, but one side are saying “if you play with a monster truck you must be a boy, so if you’re a girl we should start you on puberty blockers right away!”. The “liberals” are the ones using stereotypes of “if you are comfortable wearing jeans and a tshirt over a dress then you must be a boy”, not the other way around.
I really don’t understand why people think they need to have a say in how other people raise children.
Really? So you would be ok with parents teaching their kids that black people should be slaves, that it’s ok for adults to have sex with them, and that they can go and murder the next door neighbours cat if they want to? No one should have a say in that or be against it?
Please, tell me how you want big federal government to tell us what to do.
So you’re just anti-government? Do you object to murder being illegal? That’s letting the “big federal government to tell us what to do” isn’t it?
Okay most of these are in fact just conservative talking points. A couple hypotheticals for you then.
A 16 year old male has felt like a female since they were 8. They have worn dresses, they went by another name, they do not want to be male. They have asked their parents for oh, 4 years to be put on blockers to help them lower their voice and cut down on facial hair, they legitimately want this. Let’s just assume the drugs are 100% safe, as safe as drugs ever can be. Would you be okay with this?
Follow up then, who decides when the drugs are safe? Is it when your family doctor says they are? When the FDA says they are (or whoever your equivalent is)?
Reason I switch this to hypotheticals is because the argument isn’t about if they are safe or not, it’s about consent. If drugs/procedures are safe is already well defined in all of our governments. You’re right, a 10 year old can’t get a tattoo because there is no need for a 10 year old to get a tattoo. But should it be allowed for a 17 year old who has fully swapped to female after 9 years of acting as one? I’m legit asking you if they should. and if you’re answer is no, why is it no, truly?
I’m asking this way because really I’m trying to get you to see our side, that it’s not as “crazy” as conservative media is making it out to be. You actually already agree with us for the most part, that people should be allowed to dress and act the way they want, and honestly that’s 90% of what they’re fighting for, literally just to exist, to not be demonized. This one bit here is honestly just a small concern to most liberals, but it’s been blown waaaaay out of proportion by the media. To me it’s a detail, a footnote in the argument on the trans rights movement.
I actually think you and I are closer on this than the news articles would have us believe. My personal belief is that if the drugs are safe and approved by doctors, and they are reversible, I would let my kids go on them. I, as a parent, would not let them have anything irreversible done until they were 18. Personally I would sit them down and say something like “I completely understand, and I understand that you are in high school and feel like this is forever, but I want you to go into this with a full clear head knowing you made the right decision, not because of what factors in school make you want, but because you yourself want it”, and personally would have them hold off until 18. Anything reversible is fine, but again I think we agree, kids are fickle, I know I was, I thought long greasy hair was totally in. It was not.
You can think whatever you want about him, that’s not the point. The point was that the actual movie was basically him giving “experts” enough rope to hang themselves with, and hang themselves they did. It was about pointing out the absurdity of the situation, a situation where not even the people spouting the views could give answers.
Keep in mind this works both ways. The progressive outrage machine is arguably even more active than the conservative machine. Look at the reaction to Sound of Freedom. An extremely neutral movie when you consider the politics of its content. But the main actor is a conspiracy theorist, so I guess that means the movie is a far right propaganda vehicle? By that logic most movies are far left propaganda vehicles.
A similar phenomenon has always followed Trump around. Media gets insane hits for anti-Trump content. Some people built entire careers off of reporting on his tweets. The more shocking and exaggerated they could make the content, the more money came flooding in. That’s why so much of the coverage of Trump was sensationalized and uncharitable. It’s also why moderates couldn’t help but root for him. There’s only so much the established powers that be can lie about someone before you want to support him regardless of his character flaws. It helped that his policies were generally great, focusing on anti-war and populist market adjustments.
This is why you should always take the news with a grain of salt. They’re all out to make money, and they all have agendas.
They’re all out to make money
Wish I could give more than one upvote given that the balanced view you present is obviously controversial amongst a Reddit crowd.
I think the other thing that maybe people need to remember is that there’s pretty much always someone further left than you, and there’s a good chance they consider you a conservative. There’s always another further out there idea, and in that way a lot of people who used to be lefties turned into conservatives simply by not picking up on the new thing. Then it’s guilt by association, instead of just being one tick less progressive, people end up getting tired with all of the worst brushes.
Another thing that is a reality that isn’t going to make a lot of people happy is virtually every culture has conservatives of some kind. There are conservatives in africa, and in asia – there’s a lot of conservatives in Asia in fact. There’s conservatives amongst the Jews, there’s conservatives amongst the Indians and in the Middle East. And not all of that conservatism comes from one place.
The world is a lot more complicated than people seem to think, and we’re starting to see that coming to fruition because not everyone who opposes Western liberal conservatism is a western liberal.
I think it’s important to first define it in a political context first. For example, current Conservatives in political context in the US would mean a far right voter who actually believes 2020 election was stolen. Probably also believes the attack on the Capitol was the most peaceful protests in history. Anyone else well sure could be considered on the left by conservatives.
Though, I agree sure far right or far left and anyone a tick away can be considered the opposite. However, there are other political views that try to land somewhere on the middle. The political compass.
💯
This could not be more true:
I’m “liberal” and “progressive”. I’ve never voted for my countries “conservatives”, in fact I’ve voted for independants that many would call “far left” more than I’ve voted for our regular “left” recently. I voted YES in our referendum for gay marriage. I’m all for “gender identity” in adults if that’s what makes you happy.
I do not, however, think children should be given “gender affirming care”, so that makes me a “bigot”, “far right”, a “nazi”, a “trumper”, and a “conservative” according to those too far gone on the left. If you won’t let a kid get a tattoo then you shouldn’t let a kid cut any perfectly good body parts off, or stunt their body and minds growth with “puberty blockers” aka chemical castration. If you won’t trust a kids opinion enough to let them vote, don’t let them make decisions that are life altering.
Lots of examples in this discussion thread. Zombies who don’t know they’re tearing everything apart.
Not to mention the “progressives” reaction to Matt Walsh’s movie “what is a woman?”
I didn’t know who Matt Walsh was, but Googling him these tweets are the first things that popped up. I can see why people react badly to him.
bOtH sides tHoUgH!!!
“Just because there are two sides doesn’t mean they both have points worth listening to.”
I’m well aware of what the right’s “side” is. It’s bigoted and out of date. Unless they suddenly start accepting people for who they are I don’t need to give them any more of my time or thoughts. That’s not being “dug in” or “stubborn”, it means I’m saying no to hating people and they need to change their stance if they want to get me to vote for them ever again.
Ironic considering the people that won’t accept themselves for who they are.
Adults can be trans all they want, call yourself whatever gender you want - just stop experimenting on children with surgeries and drugs.
Jesus what a stupid take, to actually believe that liberals are “experimenting on children”. Seriously. Stop and really really think to yourself if that’s happening. What, is this some horror movie with a terrified child with a single bulb swinging overhead, while the doctor evilly rubs his hands together. “Ah ha, yes, now to destroy traditional America evil laugh”
Surgeries, gender altering surgeries, are usually held off until 18, and if they’re not I really don’t understand why the government needs to have a say in something that a parent and child decide on. Drugs, puberty blockers have no long term effects and even then again, why does the government need to step in and say what a doctor should or not prescribe when the parents have been informed. and even then these are usually the minority of trans kids, and even then most parents do in fact have rules in place to wait until 18.
You know really what most liberals want? For people to be comfortable with themselves. To not have big government tell them that if they feel more comfortable wearing jeans and a tshirt over a dress that they should be allowed to. That if a child says “I don’t like playing with monster trucks, can I play with a doll instead?” that we can say yes, absolutely you can.
I truly don’t understand how anyone can be against that. I really don’t understand why people think they need to have a say in how other people raise children. This all from the party of “small government”, but then demands that they raise children a certain way.
But I’m sure by now you’ve completely ignored my point, and you have more fox news rage bait responses readied up to fire back at me. Please, tell me how you want big federal government to tell us what to do.
What would you call it? It’s using drugs for reasons they’re not approved for, to do surgeries that have massive lists of complications and even without complications will require literal daily care for the rest of their life, when there are no long term studies done on either of these things. The long term effects of “puberty blockers” are unknown. It’s literal experimentation at this stage because there have been no long term studies. How is it not experimenting? We do know however that they’re not 100% reversible - you just need to look at many transgender people that took them to see that. Boys that were “girls” that are now sterile thanks to taking puberty blockers and HRT, etc.
“Usually” doesn’t cut it. You don’t understand why life altering elective surgeries shouldn’t be government regulated? A child cannot consent to these surgeries or treatments. They do not have the mental capacity to do so. Let me ask you this - would you let a 10 year old get a tattoo? What if they really want it, and their parents are ok with it? You think they should be able to go and get a nice big dragon tattoo on the side of their head?
This has been disproven time and time again. You can’t just “pause” puberty and then have it pick up right where it left off, it doesn’t work that way, physically or mentally. The NHS for example changed their literature from “The effects of treatment with GnRH analogues are considered to be fully reversible” to “Little is known about the long-term side effects of hormone or puberty blockers in children with gender dysphoria. Although the Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS) advises this is a physically reversible treatment if stopped, it is not known what the psychological effects may be. It’s also not known whether hormone blockers affect the development of the teenage brain or children’s bones. Side effects may also include hot flushes, fatigue and mood alterations.”. Other countries have now started doing the same. Why would they be doing this if “the science is settled”?
The problem is that no one is telling kids that if they’re a boy they have to play with a monster truck, but one side are saying “if you play with a monster truck you must be a boy, so if you’re a girl we should start you on puberty blockers right away!”. The “liberals” are the ones using stereotypes of “if you are comfortable wearing jeans and a tshirt over a dress then you must be a boy”, not the other way around.
Really? So you would be ok with parents teaching their kids that black people should be slaves, that it’s ok for adults to have sex with them, and that they can go and murder the next door neighbours cat if they want to? No one should have a say in that or be against it?
So you’re just anti-government? Do you object to murder being illegal? That’s letting the “big federal government to tell us what to do” isn’t it?
Okay most of these are in fact just conservative talking points. A couple hypotheticals for you then.
A 16 year old male has felt like a female since they were 8. They have worn dresses, they went by another name, they do not want to be male. They have asked their parents for oh, 4 years to be put on blockers to help them lower their voice and cut down on facial hair, they legitimately want this. Let’s just assume the drugs are 100% safe, as safe as drugs ever can be. Would you be okay with this?
Follow up then, who decides when the drugs are safe? Is it when your family doctor says they are? When the FDA says they are (or whoever your equivalent is)?
Reason I switch this to hypotheticals is because the argument isn’t about if they are safe or not, it’s about consent. If drugs/procedures are safe is already well defined in all of our governments. You’re right, a 10 year old can’t get a tattoo because there is no need for a 10 year old to get a tattoo. But should it be allowed for a 17 year old who has fully swapped to female after 9 years of acting as one? I’m legit asking you if they should. and if you’re answer is no, why is it no, truly?
I’m asking this way because really I’m trying to get you to see our side, that it’s not as “crazy” as conservative media is making it out to be. You actually already agree with us for the most part, that people should be allowed to dress and act the way they want, and honestly that’s 90% of what they’re fighting for, literally just to exist, to not be demonized. This one bit here is honestly just a small concern to most liberals, but it’s been blown waaaaay out of proportion by the media. To me it’s a detail, a footnote in the argument on the trans rights movement.
I actually think you and I are closer on this than the news articles would have us believe. My personal belief is that if the drugs are safe and approved by doctors, and they are reversible, I would let my kids go on them. I, as a parent, would not let them have anything irreversible done until they were 18. Personally I would sit them down and say something like “I completely understand, and I understand that you are in high school and feel like this is forever, but I want you to go into this with a full clear head knowing you made the right decision, not because of what factors in school make you want, but because you yourself want it”, and personally would have them hold off until 18. Anything reversible is fine, but again I think we agree, kids are fickle, I know I was, I thought long greasy hair was totally in. It was not.
You can think whatever you want about him, that’s not the point. The point was that the actual movie was basically him giving “experts” enough rope to hang themselves with, and hang themselves they did. It was about pointing out the absurdity of the situation, a situation where not even the people spouting the views could give answers.
Remember when Velma pissed everyone off equally and there was a brief moment of bipartisan unity? That was fun.
Removed by mod