Wanted to ask you about this article, how do you remember the early days of the internet (I was sadly too young at that time). Do you wish it back? And do you think it can ever be like that again? I would be very interested
Wanted to ask you about this article, how do you remember the early days of the internet (I was sadly too young at that time). Do you wish it back? And do you think it can ever be like that again? I would be very interested
I miss written tutorials. I hate how every tutorial is a YouTube now. I don’t want to watch 15 minutes and forget to pay attention for the second that has the detail that I am missing or it just doesn’t show. Even short tutorials are 3 minutes when it could have been a ten second read. I want to skim a page and go directly to the point. Has writing really become that hard to do?
Drives me crazy when I see this kind of format for things like programming. Nothing like pausing the video and trying to see what their code says.
I was all set to start bitching about the obligatory 10-15 minutes of “older, medicated suburban housewife shows off her whole yarn closet, every needle, which needle she likes (it’s not better, it’s just pretty), her fingernails, pushes her state-mandated store, and then finishes off with an internet recipe story about how her gramgram was fleeing the war and had to knit jasmine stitch backwards to survive…before fucking up the stitch and never editing that part out. But it’s ok because her hands were in the way the whole time anyway.”
But I think you’ve found the only thing that has me beat.
I will at least use this time to implore any knitting/crochet peeps on the fediverse that if you or someone you love is uploading how-to videos anywhere on the web…SHOW ME THE DAMN STITCH SO I CAN LEAVE. I HAVE PROJECTS, I DO NOT CARE.
I’ll usually go with the length of the video in cases like this. Anything above 5 minutes is a red flag!
YT algorithm favors videos that are at least 10 minutes (they fit more ads in) so those get recommended more. As a result, runtimes get padded with fluff so you get recommended to more viewers.
That’s disgusting.
I feel like relying on the algorithms completely misses the human elements.
If I need an answer to something, I want my top results to be short and sweet. If I want a documentary or dj set, I don’t want a 3-10 minute version.
@4am @swan_pr :masto_flushed:
@4am @swan_pr And it’s much harder to sell ads on text instructions 😞
The ad-driven nature of the internet means we get that instead of what we want.
@codefolio @4am @swan_pr which is fine, if people want to get paid for providing tutorials or instructions, then that’s good for them, if advertising is the mechanism to allow that, then so be it.
@keith @4am @swan_pr
It’s still hard that it cuts off the early internet. Ads driven by search engines means SEO, which mean making it *very* hard to find the kind of instructions you can’t sell ads on.
It’s understandable that people write what they can get paid for. It’s hard that the early Internet methods of doing this are now effectively dead, with no replacement.
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@keith @codefolio @4am @swan_pr people should get paid for their efforts, but advertising and algorithms negatively impact the quality of what they produce.
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You asked for doughy buns, you got doughy buns
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Of course, it all depends on the context. A tutorial for a specific knitting stitch can be done in under 5 minutes, other stuff not so much! There was also an interesting thread somewhere yesterday asking why don’t people use their subscription feed on YT and the answers were a good representation of the user base here, ie: most do use it and avoid the algo at all costs! So I think we’re all on the same page here, we search and use YT in a way that is most efficient but not the most common :)
@4am @swan_pr
Except now they’re also pushing shorts (which is so stupid).
@4am @swan_pr It’d be nice if they do that padding at the end, not the beginning.
I still remember a video I found a year ago that was just barely over a whole minute. It was a guy doing one single really clear cable stitch in complete silence, and then the video cuts out.
I do not know who they are, but I will vouch for that man before god.
Doing a cursory search to see if I can find it again, the second video suggested to me is 26:44 long.
It probably disappeared into the ether because it was too short or lacked a backdrop of dried flowers and a cup of tea.
@Nepenthe @Provider @bstix @Anders429 @swan_pr some procedures are easier to understand when you see how it is done. Like changing the battery in the key of a car.
@swan_pr @Provider @bstix @Anders429 @Nepenthe
A five minute video is the WORST because it’s going to be four minutes of branding, then 12 seconds of them showing me where in the menu the option I need was buried, then 48 seconds of Don’t Forget To Like And Subscribe Kay Thanks Bye!
@swan_pr @Provider @bstix @Anders429 @Nepenthe
I generally don’t view them all, just keep searching for a text-only explanation. Even those have a lot of blabbity blab to scroll past.
If I DO launch a vid, i jump through hoping to find the worthwhile part.
@Nepenthe @Provider @bstix @Anders429 I need a tutorial to show me how you added bolded text to your post!
I assume it all works the same on mastodon, if it’s showing up ok, so:
• Bold is 2 asterisks on either side
like ** this **
• Italics is either one asterisk on each side like * this * or underscores _ like this _ (does this show up italicized for you?)
• Strikethrough is ~~ two tildes ~~ and looks
like thisObviously just remove the spaces in between the symbols and letters, because I can’t figure out yet how to stop markdown from working on here any other way, in order to depict it precisely
@Nepenthe @Provider @bstix @Anders429 @alexblock **bold** *italic* ~~strikethrough~~
Does this look MD to you?
@Nepenthe @Provider @bstix @Anders429 Thanks for the tips, handy to know!
@Nepenthe @Provider @bstix @Anders429 that’s why I made a 2-minute how to series for the FT-60r. Each video has to show how to do something on the radio in 2 minutes or less.
@Nepenthe @Provider @bstix @Anders429 Haha, I’m tempted to turn that whole thread into a piece of music with “I HAVE PROJECTS I DO NOT CARE” as the chorus. (I’m hearing it as some sort of electronic hardcore punk.)
If you can pull it off, you have my blessing. Better post it when you’re done, though.
@Nepenthe @Provider @bstix @allenstenhaus If you want a written tutorial for weird sewing things, I got you covered. I think I have two. One is for a tiny bag, the other is for fabric artist trading cards :D
Ok, explain. Link me. I’ve been turning this over in my head. I cannot fathom what “fabric artist trading card” could possibly be
Reading documentation is still king here.
@Anders429 @bstix lol actually i watch videos for programming sometimes - what is really bad is getting a good look at that one knitting stitch that has a six letter abbreviation and only the worst text explanations WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH TAKING A PICTURE OF THIS
@Anders429 @bstix for me its even not accessible then, because I can’t see the Code in the Video on Screen, ocr is also not reliable there.
@Anders429 @bstix
Or their screen looks like this, but blurrier.
@Anders429 @bstix and forget about copy and pasting code
Video title: “How to unlock the demon door on the fourth level of Demon Smasher Elite”
“Hello, video game fans! Don’t forget to like and subscribe! Last week I posted a video that isn’t relevant to this video, but I need to drag out the time on this one to game the algorithm, so I’m going to rehash and plug that video. I’m going to shout out to my Patreon subscribers with ridiculous usernames I won’t pronounce well. Now let’s get to the part you’ve waiting for: I’m going to play through the entire thirty minutes worth of level four before you get to the demon door and I will stop to make useless commentary on the bad guys you encounter. Okay, now you’ve skipped forward to what looks like the area before the demon door part of the stage, but I’m going to talk about some unrelated anecdote about this game or maybe the game devs, and then plug my Patreon account and mention a completely different game that I’ll be streaming next. Oh and here’s the five seconds of the video you wanted to see when I tell you to click the right mouse button on the hidden lever next to the demon door in order to open it, except you aren’t seeing it because you skipped forward too far and gave up. Don’t forget to like and subscribe! This video has been brought to you by Nord VPN.”
About a month ago, I’d gotten back to replaying Suikoden Tactics, and there’s this whole quest-accepting mechanic that’s the easiest way to rack up skill points. But one of them is a series of “go get X out of the murder death ruins for me.”
That place is pure ass and permadeath is a thing, so I’m not just going to go jaunting down to the final floor because I’m bored. And for the life of me, I could not remember which floor whatever item was even on in order to know whether it was worth trying for right now.
This game is old enough that there are almost no discussions about it. I’m rooting through abandoned forums from 2005 looking for gems. God bless forums from 2005 btw.
Somehow, there is a single video on this subject. It is a series of videos as the youtuber fights through the entire dungeon in one go. There is commentary. There are no timestamps. He does not split the videos according to floor. The information I’m looking for is somewhere in here, but I have zero guarantee he’s even treasure hunting, so he may not mention it.
I could have cried.
1996 is on the latter end of what I consider the early internet, but I really miss the Video Game FAQ Archive (GameFAQs) which was murdered by a thousand cuts culminating in the death of the gamefaqs.com domain. FAQs used to be so good, these days the same information is dispersed over 50 pages of an HTML “guide” that is more ads than information, and often for less complete information, if it’s not just a YouTube video that’s even worse and shows you things but doesn’t explain them at all.
Wikihow is pretty good. Most offer a written and illustrated article as well as a video
Same. I missed those days where you can just control F to the part of the page and get the info you wanted. Now it’s wait for 2 ads to play, scroll through the intro and then a bunch of scrubbing to find it.
YES, this is such a peeve for me!!! I’ve developed an aversion to viewing video content unless it’s for something I truly need to see done. And even then, I’m more likely to check wikihow and endure their gifs than I am to watch someone’s video. It’s just so overdone.
It’s probably more to do with discoverability and monetization. I’m generalizing a ton, but I feel like there isn’t even a ton of super useful YouTube tutorials outside of beginner content because that gets the most views.
Tons of interesting niche stuff exists, it’s good for minor car repairs for example, but I avoid it as much as possible anyway
@bstix
YES. And when you find a written version you have to scroll past a mile of backstory to get to the point.
@bstix soon will be very hard to find written ones that aren’t done by AI and full of dubious info.
@bstix damn, I thought I was alone with this. It’s incredibly frustrating that everything is a bloody YouTube. My theory is that people dream of those €€€s coming in from viewers.
The cynic in me says yes.
@bstix @Provider 👏👏👏👏
I have resorted to going to the YouTube video page and reading the garbled bot translation underneath because it’s still better than sitting through a video with a bunch of filler.
@bstix Yes. Also when you’re blind, software tutorials in particular are either 15 minutes of nothing but music, or someone going “to do x thing, all you need to do is click this button, drag this slider to here, click this until it says this, type this into there, and you’re done.”
Yeah, you could skim pages, or read thoroughly, search in the text, easily jump back to the previous paragraph to skim a bit again, google (or DDG) for terms you remember from an article to find it again, etc.
Not just tutorials, I enjoyed reading tech or product reviews, like the original Anandtech when Anand was there, that all seems to be going the way of obnoxious youtubers.
@bstix @Provider
They’re awful if you are looking for something that requires you to type commands into a keyboard or code into an editor.
The video window needs to be large enough to read it, and even then, you can’t copy/paste anything from a video.
@bstix @Provider Strongly endorsed. For me, watching a video is possibly the least-effective way to learn how to do something. Learn to write or find someone to write for you if you want me to use your stuff.
@bstix @Provider it drives me insane that I can’t type text into a box and have an article come back to me. I’ve found videos that explained a thing beautifully, and then I can never find it again because the phrase I remember wasn’t in the tags.
@bstix @Provider
Totally agree, it’s awful. I recently noticed that the YouTube android app seems to have built in auto-transcription that is often (but not always) searchable. I haven’t been able to find this on the desktop webpage, only on the mobile app.
@bstix @Provider Trying to copy snippets of code to try / adapt out of the video sucks as well. I often don’t need/want to download an entire sample project from a link in the description.
Plus, given time constraints, I occasionally try to grab a few moments for tutorials while hanging out with family, sitting at a restaurant, or whatever else, so I’d have to watch videos muted as well.
Definitely always look for written form.
@bstix @Provider @benjiweber
You also can’t “copy and paste” code from their video screen.
@bstix Is it due to a higher preponderance of visual learners? There should be both. Text, and video.🤔@Provider
@bstix @Provider This! I’m not sure who is more at fault. Is it that writers don’t want to write or that readers don’t want to read (causing writers to shift from writing)? Either way it is torture. I’m a fast reader. Videos go at their own agonizing pace. Who thought this was a good idea???
Advertising companies and people who make money from streaming
@bstix @Provider I read considerably faster than people talk, so written information is a lot faster for me to get. Written tutorials are way better too because you can easily re-read difficult parts.
@bstix
And wondering why you need X or Y that doesnt relate to what youre doing only to find out it was a commercial 🙃
@Provider @rhinocratic
The worst are the videos that are little more than a Windows desktop and a syntesized voice of a tutorial that could be written. Additional negative points for instructions writen on Notepad on the screen on that video.
@bstix @Provider I’m not sure if it’s my neural divergence, but I actually find YouTube demos/tutorials quite intimidating. I will always pick a written one if I can find it.
@bstix @Provider God yes. I recently bought a bottle of rum that has a ridiculous ball valve built into the neck so my first attempt to pour it yielded nothing. Googled it & a YT video came up—something ridiculous like 7 minutes or longer—that could have been handled by a single sentence on the label. (Or better yet, not using a ball valve)
@bstix @Provider video is better for certain things, but does not replace a written tutorial at all. If anything, they complement each other.
@bstix 💯 embedded videos forced to fit into 256x256 pixels where you can’t read shit.
@bstix @Provider oh god I hate it when I try to look something up and the only thing I can find is some awkward person going “so uh, you uh, click on this and then, uh, type uh that.” Like why can’t they just type somewhere in a blog or forum or something “type X in a console”?
@bstix @Provider I’ve been a programmer for over a decade. I inevitably spend part of every day searching the web for very specific or very general problems. Not once have I watched a video to find those answers. There is nothing more boring than watching someone else write a todo list app (seriously, stop making these) for exactly 10:01 minutes.
@x0 I love Whisper for this. Turns these videos into nice transcripts that I can search through.
@bstix @Provider
I find that very annoying too… The search engines are not like they used to be. They are all turning into clickbait sites.
@bstix
I know what you mean. “-site:youtube.com” has become part of a lot of my Google searches.
@bstix @Provider hear hear. Fucking video tutorials… they always skip over the one tiny thing you need to know …
@bstix Yea, searching is basically slow, and unsearchable.
However, a proper setup tutorial has the virtue of being complete. People will typically forget to write ‘import random’ in their python docs, or ‘systemctl restart transmission’, because they think it’s obvious.
With video tutorials, you get the whole thing, and you can literally see where you’re deviating from the script.
Of course that’s possible with written text, but I seldom find it.
@bstix The ones that annoy me are the youTube videos that are text on the video but just a music overlay… no verbal instructions at all and since Ic an’t see the video period it is useless to me.
@bstix @Provider
Oh gosh, this! I am way better at picking up what is relevant to me in a text article while scanning a text than waiting for thing to happen in a video. It’s so infuriating sometimes. Also, video streaming is using so much data that I would rather not do it when I am using mobile internet… So yeah, bring back text based tutorials…
@bstix
Worst I remember was a printer Manual that explains the error codes. As Slides, in a video. So you cannot even really google it.
@Provider
@bstix @Provider sometimes I want a video to walk me through it and *still* get irritated by trying to drop it in exactly the right spot 50x to execute the steps. . . Give me written instructions any day. And link to the damn video.
@bstix best example ever: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-ZTGpRMU04
@bstix @Provider @gvwilson writing is as hard as it ever was, but monetization of ad-hoc tutorial content is far easier and more lucrative on youtube. People are literally being paid to pollute your search results with video.
I’m actually optimistic; I think eventually youtube will face too much flak for this kind of garbage, it’ll start affecting viewership, they’ll tweak the algorithm or the partner program to punish bad tutorials and there’ll be a renaissance of the written stuff.
@bstix A friend once said “videos are for marketing; text is for instruction” and it made it all make sense.
@bstix
@Provider @bursaar Agreed! There’s no CTRL+F on a video, either!
@bstix @Provider
It seems so, and this is not good because many times written tutorials (including technical ones) are better.
@bstix @Provider yes, even written tutorials with a few photos.
Also, I cant remember coming across a written tutorial & abandoning it because of how it’s written, but there’s been multiple times I’ve left a video because I can’t listen to that presenter any more.
@bstix @TechEnthusiast 100% This is especially annoying when I’m trying to find out how to do something in Python or whatever programming language I happen to be playing with. I am blind and use a screen reader. If the text is written, I can review word by word, line by line, character by character, ETC. This is important when trying to learn programming.
@bstix @Provider I was one of the guys who used to write those, for Microsoft and others. I was at Microsoft when the boom dropped and most and most written documentation projects in favor of minimal on line help files and CBT (pre-video scripted feature demonstrations. The project (the Word for Windows technical manual) was shuffled to Microsoft Press, which didn’t want it, leaving me in the middle. Fun.
@bstix @Provider I wish the videos would all simply have the written directions in the description so regardless of how a person absorbs best it’s there.
@bstix @Provider I’m dyslexic and even I can’t stand these Youtube tutorials. The irony is probably that the script they write to make said tutorial is likely many times more useful than the tutorial itself, just because it’s a video…
@bstix couldn’t agree more!
Most of my students preferred video, even if with very few exceptions slides + text was better for them (for the stuff we did).
Also *good* video takes forever to make, good text+image tutorials slightly less forever but the search is much easier!
@bstix everyone wants to be a movie star
@bstix @Provider Same. I hate video tutorials. I play a lot of video games and sometimes I need to look something up, which sometimes means I get lucky and someone has written a decent walkthrough down, but often times means I have to start and stop a damn video over and over and over to get the information at the pace I need.
@bstix
OMFG this so much. Especially since most tutorials are ponderously slow and tedious. At the other extreme, are the ones with no subtitles and no sound where you are expected to follow a cursor flying around the screen clicking on things and are supposed to understand what happens. Those in particular should die in a fire.
@bstix @Provider I was trying to work through an online class on Python, and every hour video included ten minutes of encouraging the viewer to keep at it, and five minutes of lame puns. The actual instruction was fine, but text would have been much easier.
@bstix @Provider A 3 minute video where someone shows you how to change your car’s headlights does tend to be better than a text description.
But it’s no longer a 3 minute video. It’s 25 minutes with a 5 minute sponsor segment, 15 minutes of faffing about, 3 minutes to plug pateron, 1 minute of intro and outro, and then 1 minute where they show the changing of the lightbulb but they cut away to a wide shot so the host can be shown clowning around and you can’t tell what he did.
@bstix I don’t think it’s because writing things is hard but people have become increasingly passive. Why sit down and read for an hour when you can just have someone explain it to you in only 15 minutes
Personally I prefer to go at my own pace when I have to learn something. Videos just aren’t good for that.
@bstix @Provider From a creator’s perspective that sounds rather ungrateful. Why not be happy that people take the time to create free tutorials at all – in the way they see fit? We look for tutorials because they shorten the time we would otherwise need to figure things out. So it’s weird to say “you helped me save 2 hours of trial-and-error, but it took 3 minutes instead of 1, so damn you!”.
I get what you’re saying; but it often feels like a “bears favour”. The content creator wants to help and promises to help, but end up just wasting my time and not helping at all. It’s a lot easier to glance a document or webpage to see if it contains the thing you’re interested in, whereas in a video you’ll have to sit through it all before you can tell if it even contains the information.
@bstix this, but also sometimes I do need the video tutorial for certain things
@bstix @WideAperture
It has always been an issue for published tech writing, that it is often obsolete by the time it hits the shelf.
But the bigger problem is that developers began to nurture an ‘oh, they’ll figure it out’ attitude and stopped thinking of instructions as necessary.
My biggest issue is interfaces have become some international secret code of mystery glyphs hiding functions several levels down in unexpected corners.
I mean written on a webpage, not published in book. The early Internet had lots of pages where people would write tutorials about their hobbies and tech instead of filming themselves mumbling into a headset.