Hi there, have a question (coming from a legal municipality):
Recently picked up a 1g preroll of cannabis from the dispensary and left it in my car for a week (ambient temps around 41°). When I went to smoke it, it smelled the same and looked the same (was in a sealed plastic container) but it had no effect whatsoever. Does THC degrade at high ambient temps?
So when dry vaporizing we are basically doing the same thing… except much hotter - we’re talking closer to 150c and hotter to release the vapor from the herb.
In fact, we use different temperatures (between 150c and 220C) to release different medical benefits from the flower (low temps around 150C for more uplifting cerebral effects, and high temps over 200C for more pain relief and sedation).
Yes something will start to degrade at 40c, but what you experienced is not that…
Fun story for you:
I had a similar experience in Las Vegas. While attending a CHAMPS trade show (420 industry b2b event) in Las Vegas, the different recreational dispensaries were giving away free pre-rolls and large discounts to any customer who had a CHAMPS badge from the show. Since I don’t combust (dry vaporizing only), I took the free pre-roll from one dispensary and emptied the shake. Then I cooked it in my dry herbal vaporizer.
Except I got literally zero vapor!!! I honestly thought my vaporizer was broken. Until I reloaded the device with some fresh top-shelf flower and boom, I got a ton of vapor. As it turns out, the dispensary I visited was extracting all concentrate from the herb to sell wax concentrate to customers. The leftover shake from that process was put into pre-rolls and sold as cheap 1g smokes despite the fact that they contained essentially zero active compounds.
To the average smoker, its cheap and it produces smoke (plus the combustion creates a toxic cocktail of carcinogenics and carbon monoxide can yield temporary euphoric and sedative affects which fools many ents). But with my dry herbal vaporizer I immediately noticed the problem.
So to answer your question, no I highly doubt that leaving a pre-roll in a car at 40c would cook off ALL active compounds. Maybe some low-temp terps, but not everything.
Does that dispensary also sell concentrates? It’s very likely they are trying to double-dip by selling both the concentrates and the trash shake as pre-rolls so they can increase profits. And I’m sure the local government doesn’t care that they’re misleading customers - because they’re still earning tax revenue and all that jazz.
If you don’t believe me, it would be really easy to test with a dry herbal vaporizer - put some of that pre-roll into a dry vaporizer set to 200C and start cooking - do you see much vapor production? Or does the device produce practically zero vapor? That’d be because there are no active compounds left to extract at those temps.
Just my $0.02
I’ve had this exact same experience multiple times, also in Vegas but in California, Oregon, Massachusetts. The simple fact of the matter seems to be that a majority of prerolls are made from low quality shake and many times sifted flower. I feel like the only prerolled joints worth getting are if they have a lot of oil on it for less than $10.
This is the same case for some herb as well, you just get flower and it vapes for all of 3 minutes before it stops producing vapor. Tasty enough for the beginning but it just speeds by.
Interesting! But it doesn’t surprise me
Yep, this is where I get all sciency and use my Arizer XQ2 to measure the quality of new strains (as well as determine if they are indeed a sativa leaning or indica leaning hybrid based on the temps and vapor production). Basically I’ll preheat the device at a desired temp for 20+ minutes, load the device with a measured dose of herb using my Mighty Scoop-n-tamp and then set fan speed to low and slowly fill a balloon. I then hold the herb up to the light and view the opacity of the vapor cloud in the bag.
The more opaque, the higher the concentration of active compounds at that temp and thus the higher quality of the herb.
Low grade strains might produce minimal vapor or a mildly opaque balloon, while some top tier strains will fill the bag completely opaque with milky vapor on a single scoop of herb.
Like I said, I also test at different temps with fresh loads of herb to test the strain and see how much vapor it produces at lower temps verses higher temps (if it’s there’s minimal vapor at lower temps but significantly more at higher temps, than it’s likely an indica or cbd leaning strain)
Was just looking at the xq2 yesterday. I love my air max but the limited battery life is starting to become a challenge for all day vaping.was comparing between the arizer starter desktop and the xq2. I think I should just spring for the xq2. Can you share how you feel about it?
So I bought the original Arizer ExtremeQ specifically for my jacuzzi and pool time needs - where I don’t want to bring an electronic or butane powered device, but I want to bring some vapor with me to have fun. The fan assist to fill balloons was what I needed at a cost effective price (the volcano was too expensive for my needs)
The ExtremeQ absolutely exceeded my expectations. It lasted me for several years until the temperature sensor failed (likely because I would try and “cheat” the vaping extraction process by rocking/shaking my vape while filling a balloon for more optimal extraction hahaha). I have no doubt I could find a replacement temp sensor and fix the vaporizer myself, but I never got around to it.
Instead I opted to buy the new XQ2 from Arizer a few months after it hit the market.
Note, there is the cheap Arizer desktop - the “V-Tower” which is essentially the EQ without the fan blower to fill balloons - it’s a whip or direct-draw vaporizer only.
Trust me when I say you want that fan-assist, it makes the device more versatile.
Here’s the main differences between the original Arizer ExtremeQ and the new XQ2:
That’s it - the XQ2 is really a fancier version of the ExtremeQ with very minor tweaks, nothing that really changes the performance.
If you’re on a budget, my advice would be to look for an ExtremeQ, and if there is none available, then splurge on the XQ2.
Another fun thing I like to do with desktops like these is called the “nugget method” - break off a mini nugget and throw it in the oven. No grinding or anything. Savor the flavor at this temp for a bit, then stir to break up the nugget and refresh the flavor. This lets you “flavor chase” throughout the sesh by refreshing the flavor every time you stir/break up the herb.
So, funny story. A long time years ago someone gave me some of their old junk they didnt want to bring with them when moving out of state but didn’t want to throw away. Among these things were 2 vaporizers. I didn’t know how they worked and the pieces were really screwed up/put together wrong so the box sat in my closet for all this time. This conversation reminded me of the vaporizers so I dug them out this week. As it turns out, I have in my possession two fully functional extremeQs. A lot of pieces are missing can’t use the baloons but I managed to unfuck the whip pieces i had into a like new state and one of the chambers still had a screen. Just took my first bowl from one! Fantastic! I am so happy arizer still sells accessories for these I can order some parts I need and salvage these perfectly good vaporizers.
Woot! That’s awesome, the Arizer extremeQ is one hell of a nice vaporizer. I actually use mine for conducting testing on strains - I preheat the vaporizer at a desired temperature for 20 minutes, the load a measured dose, and then slowly fill a balloon with vapor. Then I hold the vapor up to a light source and observe the opacity of the vapor. The more milky white, the higher the quality of herb at that temperature (so if I’m testing low temps, and try cooking a top-shelf indica, of course it won’t produce much vapor at very low temps compared to high temps, but a high grade sativa would).
This lets me determine the quality of the herb, as well as what type of strain it is (if it’s a hybrid, I can determine if it’s sativa-leaning or indica-leaning based on vapor production.
Few pro tips from a seasoned EQ expert:
PREHEAT!!! Some people buy mods to get the herb closer to the heater port. But instead the real secret is to just turn on your device for 30 minutes before loading and using it. This will let the glass oven fully “heat-soak” before use. This yields more optimal efficient extraction
Try the nugget method - instead of grinding, break off a tiny nugget and toss it in the oven. Take a few puffs, then stir to break up the nugget and “Refresh” the flavor - this lets you flavor-chase throughout the whole session.
Try the elbow-pack method. Some people like to stuff the tiny “elbow” screen (the one that holds back the herb) full with herb - this seems to yield a good extraction. But I’m not too impressed, although some people swear by it lol.
Filling balloons with vapor? Check out the Camelbak Silicone “Bite-Valves” - the cheap silicone ones slide right over the mouthpiece of the balloons and traps the vapor - to get vapor you simply “bite” on the mouthpiece to open so you can suck out the vapor.
Keep in mind that 100% complete extraction (at one set temperature) results in 100% uniform color across every flake of herb in the oven. (the specific shade of brown varies depending on temp used) - just know that is what to look for. Not everyone wants to achieve 100% complete extraction (others dump/refill when they’ve extracted about 70-75% ish of the herb), but that’s a key to remember.
Let me know if you need any more help with that device!
As always you are fantastic @Delta3DStudios thank you so much!!
I was wondering some things: What is a good temp range with these? I have been using the method you suggested for my max pro of starting at 300, letting it preheat a bit, taking a few good hits and bumping the temp +20f every few minutes until 385f daytime or 430f evening.
With this desktop I’m not really getting any vapor until I hit around 400f and the device can go up to 500f. Do you have any suggestions for the temps I should be using/avoiding?
The preheat thing for desktop is my biggest issue right now. Even just loading the herb and waiting for it to vaporize can take 3-5 minutes, which is a big difference from the comparatively instant smoke im use to with air max and plain old combustion. Plus preferably a 30 min preheat for best heat extraction? I will have to learn to have a little patience. Maybe get my first wake and bake done with air max while its preheating
Should I have whip inserted while its preheating? What is minimum time for preheat in your opinion?
Your mighty scoop tool is looking real useful now :-)
What is difference between old cyclone bowls I have and new connaseur bowls?
On the topic of packing the whip insert part, I think that’s dumb from an air flow standpoint. I noticed the herb that gets stuck in there stays green which indicates its not being heated as well as rest of bowl. I actually take a little puff into the mouthpiece to dislodge the stuck herb back into bowl.
Finally,would it be okay to email you? Not sure how Lemmy PMS work.
Thanks again! You are awesome!
Lol this industry has done plenty for me over the years. I’m always happy to jump in and drop some knowledge for my fellow ents (I won’t spam the site with a link but if you haven’t, be sure to check out my site, I make a bunch of cool shit for vaporizers 😉 )
That’s the fun part - self discovery. Not all of us prefer the same temps. Sometimes it depends on the mood, or the strain, or the time of day, etc.
You sound like you’re on the right track. The best way to do it is continue temperature-stepping. Start at that 300F. But work your way up 10F or 15F at a time from 300F. Maybe you find yourself RIGHT where you want to be at 350F… maybe it’s 380F. Maybe it’s 430F.
500F is used for concentrates. Depending on the device, temperatures can fluctuate by as much as 1-10F hotter than set temp (depends a lot on the design of the device, programming software, etc. So combustion can occur anywhere between a set temp of 435F and 450F. In general I prefer staying below 430F. If your ABV looks black, that’s beyond cooked for me haha. I still like it to be a shade of coffee brown when I’m done cooking… in most cases.
There are times when I’m a dumb@ss and fall off a bicycle or something and injure myself bad. Then I’ll enjoy some higher temp sessions closer to 430F. But I personally usually stay below 400F most days.
What desktop? Arizer ExtremeQ/XQ2? It sounds like you’re not preheating adequately and the oven is sucking heat away from the oven. This is a very common situation. The glass hardware acts as a heatsink. With most desktop plug-in devices, it’s best to set temp and let it sit for 20+ minutes before loading. This lets the device run more efficiently at temp.
Yes indeed this can be an adjustment.
There are “hacks” for many portables to avoid this preheat.
With my tin “log” vaporizer (Epic E-Nano Vaporizer - about the size of a small redbull can) - the wood housing was part of the secret sauce to the device. Even at max temp the device would suck for the first 10 minutes. But once the device got going, it was unstoppable. Since it was literally a 120v ceramic heater wired to a PWM dimmer switch consuming about 10 watts of electricity (at my favorite temp), I simply kept it running 24/7! So I always had heat on tap ready to vaporbong a load of any size I wanted (from full oven to microdose). It was literally too convenient so after running for 10 years I powered it offline and tucked it away for safe keeping.
At one point I even got fancy and used a smart outlet, programmed on a schedule to turn on the device in the morning before waking up, off while at work, then on to preheat before I arrived home from work hahaha.
For sure heat rises. Inserting the whip attachment would trap some more of the heat radiating up from the heater decreasing preheat times
So this depends on many factors. With the OEM bowl, probably 10 minutes. You could accelerate the process by cranking up to 450F for the first 5 minutes, then turning down for the next 5 minutes (or less) before starting your sesh.
Some people get a different oven modded with the screen placed lower closer to the heater so they can rip away without preheating. That depends on you - I prefer the OEM bowls.
For sure, I agree with you. I’m a bigger fan of preheating my desktops before use. I’ve simply gotten in the habit of turning on my Arizer XQ2 if I think I’m going to use it in the next hour. I have the auto-off timer set to shut off after 60 minutes of inactivity so it doesn’t stay running unattended.
Totally! Feel free to fill out the contact form on my website and I’ll reply back from there :-)
I’m right there with you - if I want a joint I grind up flower and throw it in a preroll cone. If I want an infused joint I just add some concentrates in/on it. Prerolls from the dispo just aren’t worth it IMHO.
I hope you reported this company. Selling or distributing flower to consumers that has gone through the hydrocarbon extraction process is both disturbingly unethical and also super dangerous. I’ve seen some wild shit over the years, but if I knew someone in the recreational market was doing this I would report them immediately. Seriously, fuck those people.
I should have, but this was also shortly after recreational was made legal in Vegas. I haven’t returned to confirm it wasn’t just a fluke.
But I totally agree