Update:
The comments from this post will not be removed as to preserve the discussion around the announcement. Any continued discussions outside of this thread that violate server rules will be removed. We feel that everyone that has an opinion, and wanted to vent, has been heard.
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Original post:
Yesterday, we received information about the planned federation by Hexbear. The announcement thread can be found here: https://www.hexbear.net/post/280770. After reviewing the thread and the comments, it became evident that allowing Hexbear to federate would violate our rules.
Our code of conduct and server rules can be found here.
The announcement included several concerning statements, as highlighted below:
- “Please try to keep the dirtbag lib-dunking to hexbear itself. Do not follow the Chapo Rules of Posting, instead try to engage utilizing informed rhetoric with sources to dismantle western propaganda. Posting the western atrocity propaganda and pig poop balls is hilarious but will pretty quickly get you banned and if enough of us do it defederated.”
- “The West’s role in the world, through organizations such as NATO, the IMF, and the World Bank - among many others - are deeply harmful to the billions of people living both inside and outside of their imperial core.”
- “These organizations constitute the modern imperial order, with the United States at its heart - we are not fooled by the term “rules-based international order.” It is in the Left’s interest for these organizations to be demolished. When and how this will occur, and what precisely comes after, is the cause of great debate and discussion on this site, but it is necessary for a better world.”
The rhetoric and goal of Hexbar are clear based on their announcement: to “dismantle western propaganda” and "demolish organizations such as NATO” shows that Hexbar has no intention of "respecting the rules of the community instance in which they are posting/commenting.” It’s to push their beliefs and ideology.
In addition, several comments from a Hexbear admin, demonstrate that instance rules will not be respected.
Here are some examples:
“I can assure you there will be no lemmygrad brigades, that energy would be better funneled into the current war against liberalism on the wider fediverse.”
“All loyal, honest, active and upright Communists must unite to oppose the liberal tendencies shown by certain people among us, and set them on the right path. This is one of the tasks on our ideological front.”
- https://lemmy.world/comment/121850
- https://lemmy.world/comment/1487168
- https://lemmy.world/comment/1476084
- https://lemmy.world/comment/171595
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3648500
Overall community comments:
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3526128
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3526086
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3652828
To clarify, for those who have inquired about why Hexbear versus Lemmygrad, it should be noted that we are currently exploring the possibility of defederating from Lemmygrad as well based on similar comments Hexbear has made.
- https://lemmygrad.ml/post/158656
- https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/882559
- https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/540170
- https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/446529
Defederation should only be considered as a last resort. However, based on their comments and behavior, no positive outcomes can be expected.
We made the decision to preemptively defederate from Hexbear for these reasons. While we understand that not everyone may agree with our decision, we believe it is important to prioritize the best interests of our community.
What do you mean eavesdrop? Do you understand how any of this works? It wasn’t a private conversation, based on the fact that I could link directly to it.
You’re free to advocate for defederation as you see fit. However, if your instance is the kind that celebrates “venting” (it was just venting, bro!) about murdering people, I’d say it’s pretty incompatible with lemmy.world.
Honestly, after spending a couple minutes reading your posts and the comments on them, I found myself being reminded of the_donald on reddit.
@[email protected]
God I wish being purposefully obtuse on the internet was bannable. You know what I mean. people make comments on hexbear for other users of hexbear who will understand it’s a joke, not for some random .world anticommunist to come in and pretend they’ve never heard of people joking in online forums before. why did you tag the admin, just use the report button???
You misunderstand. I don’t think you said anything against the rules, so the report function isn’t appropriate. I just wanted to draw attention to the fact that it is your understanding that lemmygrad allows calls for violence.
And you aren’t going to convince me it was anything other than a call for violence. You can downplay it all you’d like but all that does is paint you in a worse light. Would you approve of “venting” about rape, too? If not, why not?
because I view rape as worse than murder, and it’s just generally really weird? I’m not ceding it as a call for violence because they’re not actually calling for anyone specific to die. They didn’t tag any users or specify any irl person, because it’s not meant to be taken 100% seriously. and yes, I can claim that, because 1) it was made for other lemmygrad users to look at and 2) it’s a comment that follows with:
like come on you can not tell me that is meant to be taken 100% seriously, they’re using extreme hyperbole all throughout the comment
I would personally dm one of the actual admin accounts (at least that’s what I do), how often do they even check that account they’ve made like 5 posts with it
Edit: ultimately you could probably find worse comments from some other accounts I know get spicier than that, I’m not trying to “downplay” it
Did… you just use “it’s just a joke, bro” again?
So as long as no specific person is threatened with rape, you should be fine with it, right? What if, instead of an ideology, they said people of a certain heritage should be shot? Still no one specific, but like, “Jewish people” or “people of color”, instead of “anti-tankies”. You still cool with that? If not, why not?
because they’re not the same thing? are you really trying to equate political ideology to race??? what the actual fuck?
Yes. the “it’s a joke bro” argument comes from when you go into a random comment thread or argument and make some asinine comment and then pretend it’s a joke. It would be like if I tried to drop some joke that insulted you rn, and said that “it was just a joke”.
Example:
Do you really think his anger was enough to make “the Planck-Temperature look like fucking ice cream-absolute zero with a douse of liquid nitrogen by comparison.” do you really think that he wants to actually kill all neoliberals? I know people like to pretend that “ebil tankies” are just some subhuman monsters that would destroy the entire planet because it makes them feel good or something but no he I can promise you he doesn’t actually wanna kill everyone
I’m trying to point out that it doesn’t matter who you threaten to murder, or why. You aren’t so radicalized that you don’t see that it’s wrong when it’s one of the “obvious” ones like race, but somehow you’ve been convinced it’s perfectly fine to do it when it’s “anti-tankies”. Does that really make sense to you? Why would one be okay and the other not, if it’s just “venting” and harmless? (hint: because part of you knows it’s not okay)
I never said anything negative about people on the far-left. You’re projecting to deflect from something you know is wrong. I don’t know if he really wants to shoot people. All I know is that he said people should be killed for what they believe.
It does matter. this is a common thing on the far left. we view neoliberals as largely responsible for the state of the world, and people express their anger in crazy ways sometimes. I have a friend who threatens to bomb my house, he’s threatened to drive his car through my living room window, and he’s done this in the middle of yelling screaming arguments. I have never for 1 second thought he was serious, it’s a way for him to express anger in a jokey manner. The reason I don’t care about advocating for violence is because ultimately the only way for communists to come to power will be through some level of violence, the state won’t allow us to take power peacefully. what the hell is someone making some hyperbolic statement compared to actually having to use violence in the real world if the need somehow ever arises (I don’t have a lot of faith in the western left). This is normally where tankie accusations get thrown around I doubt you want to hear why I’m a marxist blahblahblah
I don’t view violence as fundamentally wrong. I abhor that it’s necessary, but advocating pure non-violence in the face of a state that has shown it will murder you with no remorse is both foolish and also ignores the violence that the status quo inflicts on the poor and minorities every single day.
Also, I’m not sure what exactly sure what you mean about you saying something negative about the far-left. I called you an anticommunist because by and large anticommunists are always pushing for lemmygrad to be defederated. The only other thing was the “im just joking” example which was just me trying to come up with an example on the spot
Sure, and some Nazi blames the Jewish people for all the wrongs in the world. Does that mean that it’s justified if a Nazi says all Jewish people should be shot in the head?
And this doesn’t start your spider sense tingling that maybe you’re on the wrong side of things? Holy shit, do you do even half a minute of introspection? I’m sure fascists would say the same thing. Are they also justified in violence?
Do you think it’s wrong that the ““status quo”” uses violence? After all, you don’t view it as fundamentally wrong, right? So it’s not fundamentally wrong when it’s used against you, either?
You set up a straw man about so called “ebil tankies” that I never said or even implied, to justify advocating for violence.
Here’s the kicker. Take everything you said, and then look at it and tell me if I personally deserve violence. I’m generally capitalist (democratic socialist is just capitalism light). You seem to imply you have no choice but violence against me. Is this truly how feel, or is all this simply to justify some stranger getting upvoted when they advocate violence, so you don’t have to admit your instance is toxic?
why are you so obsessed with rape analogies it’s fucking weird
Because those analogies show the huge gaping flaw in this guy’s stance.
deleted by creator
so they can participate in other comms? also 1) that’s a lemmygrad comment we’re discussing, please actually read through the convos, and 2) It’s just like Reddit, there are a ton of inside jokes that don’t make sense unless you spend a certain amount of time there but that doesn’t mean you can’t show up and still enjoy it, but when someone who’s used to it goes “yeah they’re doing a bit” you don’t go accuse them of doing the insult disguised at a joke thing