So, a thought. The mechanical manufacturing school your girlfriend goes to wants to encourage more women to enrol in the majority male class. How do they do it?
Do they promote the women actually already in the class in advertising, or… Do they take photos of the men in the class, which implies it’s mostly men, or do they photo the entire class, which shows it’s 80% men?
As you said, ‘the left’ will generally first point out that your story is anecdotal… Because it is. What makes it essentially useless to a discussion is that we don’t know the drivers for the decisions of the school… they are only inferred by our biases. Maybe the marketing team just chose the most attractive people, and that happens to be the two good looking girls in a class full of guys with neck beards and barrel chests?
Whatever they choose depends on their marketing degree advice and their professional experience. Is this womens privilege or is this just marketing exploitation of what they know will drive demand?
Bias is only a privilege if it helps the person experiencing the bias. Does it help these ladies to be in the adverising material? Will it help them land a job? Do you think them adding it to their resume will give them any meaningful benefit? Because I doubt it. As someone who has been responsible for hiring people if I saw them include this in a resume I would think it was an odd thing to mention, it has no merit on their skills.
Meanwhile, they’ll go into the manufacturing workforce and then they’ll get a job where they get paid ~85% of what a man does in the same job, statistically. That is not a thing of the past… It exists today in the USA. Earning 15% more because you were born male is a privilege that actually does have significant benefit.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/josiecox/2025/03/05/over-the-last-two-decades-the-us-gender-pay-gap-has-hardly-moved/
I note you have no examples for the demands trans people have made. Yet their demands are a big enough problem in your initial comment to warrant first mention.
Gotta say, these big unfair reverse-bias microsexisms you cite seem pretty damn insignificant in the grand scheme of society. Meanwhile… trans people are literally being murdered quite regularly for being trans, being told which bathroom to use by legislation (and then regularly being attacked and beaten for using the legallg mandated bathroom), being banned from sports, banned from military service, constantly maligned in the mainstream media (sadly OAN and Fox are mainsteam), etc. Women are being legislated against using birth control and dying from easily preventable complications of childbirth due to draconian anti-abortion laws. Still experiencing domestic violent and sexual assault at rates absolutely dwarfing those of men.
Right wing guys: society hates men. Left gone too far. Ladies and trans get so many the benefits. Lady got to be in photo! 😡
Ah. I see you completely ignored one of the 2 examples. You’re also assuming I’m in the US (which I’m not, I’m a Spaniard). You only mentioned the photo thing, but completely ignored the entrepreneurship program.
I only mentioned the photo thing because for years I’ve been hearing that we live in a sexist society because some films don’t pass the bechdel test (idk if it’s spelled like that, I hope you know what I mean). Yet when men are completely erased from media then it’s because they are neck bearded fat guys. Again, this is not the US, this is Spain, the boys are fit good looking young men. Of course, my girlfriend is way prettier, but the boys are not ugly.
I didn’t give examples for the trans thing because I thought it to be self-evident and writing these posts take quite a bit of time. But here you go:
(Below when I say trans I mean “some trans and allies”, of course not all of them think 100% the same)
Trans demand the rules of sports be changed so they can participate in their preferred league.
Trans demand they change laws so they are based around their belief of how gender works.
If there are gender-specific subsidies (which again, I don’t think they should be), trans demand it is given to them.
Trans demand official documents reflect their view of gender.
Some trans even demand their cosmetic surgeries be paid by the government.
Also, the order of the issues neither in this comment nor in the previous one is in any way related to importance, IDK why you assumed that in the first place. And again, IDK why you assume US, most of the 7th paragraph only applies to the US. If trans were just saying “we exist, let us exist, don’t hate us just for existing” like the rest of LGB, I don’t think it would be an issue. Instead they say “we exist, and even if we are the 0.001% (made up number), we demand 50% of society’s focus, and if you don’t treat us exactly the way we want, then you’re a nazi”.
EDIT: sure, just ignore the concerns and read only the “weak” ones. And young men turning right will be as surprising to you as people not liking AI is surprising to Microsoft execs.
I didn’t presume you were in the US, all of the examples I used of recent trans oppression apply to more than just the US but it’s true I was thinking of them while writing it. I’m not in the US either.
Mate, your five examples of trans demands are literally all wrong.
Gender is not sex. Gender is not binary, nor is sex. These are not scientifically controversial ideas. They are long studied norms.
Some (very few) trans women want to play in women’s sports. There have been trans athletes for many decades. It only became an issue when conservatives started complaining that they were in sport. Then the rules have been changed to ban them. Literally the opposite of your claim.
As above you’re wrong about gender.
Never heard of this would love an example. Seems like an incredibly niche issue.
Trans women are women. They ask to be named as such on their forms. Who does this affect?
So in the past, in countries with good social support networks for healthcare governments have offered to pay for gender affirming care. Its recommended by psychologists, psychiatriaata and was the standard of care recommendes by leading health bodies. Im aware of governments now beginning to stop offering these surgeries and gender care based on pressure, again, from anti-trans folk.
What is the impact to you or anyone else of 2,3,4,5? Remember we’re discussing issues that are not falling into the category of “if this isn’t hurting anyone then hey none of my business” and “everyone deserves equal care”. Very, very few women are impacted by 1, most female (at birth) athletes are trans-inclusive - can easily Google hundreds of examples.
You have it flipped. Trans people weren’t asking for shit, dude. They just got turned into the scapegoat of the right wing. I pay my taxes… And if some guy gets testosterone therapy because he’s 50 and his testosterone has started to decline and he needs gender affirming care, that’s fine - that’s good. Same for an older woman needing oestrogen therapy - great, help her out. Why would I suddenly give a crap if some struggling person wants trans treatment and it’s recommended by the medical establishment??
Likewise if some lady who used to be a boy 20 years ago is really embarrassed and harassed every time she passes through an airport by customs and security questioning why her passport says ‘male’ - fair enough, that must suck.
And then there’s people like you, who unquestioningly accept these ‘demands’ as unreasonable - because someone told you they are.
Reconsider.
P. S. Love that it’s ok for you to gloss over direct questions, but for me to accept points and not respond to every single one is to “completely ignore” them. I do not have to acknowledge every single point in long comments. We’d be here forever.
if trans were just saying “we exist, let us exist, don’t hate us just for existing” like the rest of LGB, I don’t think it would be an issue. Instead they say “we exist, and even if we are the 0.001% (made up number), we demand 50% of society’s focus, and if you don’t treat us exactly the way we want, then you’re a nazi”.
I realize you’re being flippant and over-exaggerating, but statements like this make you look exactly like the right-winger you claim not to be. Trans people do just want to exist without being subjugated and stigmatized (which is definitely currently happening). None are making any such overbearing demands as you claim.
First of all. We probably don’t agree on what gender is. You’re treating it as a matter of fact and that you’re right and I’m wrong. And then you’re using that definition to base most of the rest of the arguments.
So if you want to convince me with those arguments, you have to first give a definition of man/woman that satisfies me.
You claim that those demands don’t affect me, but they do. Every financial help that the government offers affects everyone, since everyone is paying for it. In general changing any rule/law affects everyone in one way or another.
The gay movement was different, they mostly demanded societal change. The only rule/law I can think of that was changed for them is about marriage. Which we mostly all accepted since we as a society were more accepting because of the previous societal change.
With trans, however, they are demanding changes to rules/laws without previous societal change. They haven’t yet come up with a definition of gender that most people agree to, you can’t change rules/laws for things that most people don’t even agree if it exists or not.
So if you want to convince me with those arguments, you have to first give a definition of man/woman that satisfies me.
Its not my job to educate you, and nobody ever changed someone’s opinion forcibly. If you want to learn about scientific facts of gender then read about it - nothing I’ve written above is scientifically controversial.
Good luck on your journey, here’s a couple starting points.
For someone whose “job is not to educate me”, you’ve been pretty engaged in replying to every comment.
I’m educated. I know what the theory of gender you believe is, I just don’t think it is true. I can read a wikipedia article, but I cannot argue with it.
Yet again, I am left with no definition of man/woman given by a pro-trans person.
So, a thought. The mechanical manufacturing school your girlfriend goes to wants to encourage more women to enrol in the majority male class. How do they do it?
Do they promote the women actually already in the class in advertising, or… Do they take photos of the men in the class, which implies it’s mostly men, or do they photo the entire class, which shows it’s 80% men?
As you said, ‘the left’ will generally first point out that your story is anecdotal… Because it is. What makes it essentially useless to a discussion is that we don’t know the drivers for the decisions of the school… they are only inferred by our biases. Maybe the marketing team just chose the most attractive people, and that happens to be the two good looking girls in a class full of guys with neck beards and barrel chests?
Whatever they choose depends on their marketing degree advice and their professional experience. Is this womens privilege or is this just marketing exploitation of what they know will drive demand?
Bias is only a privilege if it helps the person experiencing the bias. Does it help these ladies to be in the adverising material? Will it help them land a job? Do you think them adding it to their resume will give them any meaningful benefit? Because I doubt it. As someone who has been responsible for hiring people if I saw them include this in a resume I would think it was an odd thing to mention, it has no merit on their skills. Meanwhile, they’ll go into the manufacturing workforce and then they’ll get a job where they get paid ~85% of what a man does in the same job, statistically. That is not a thing of the past… It exists today in the USA. Earning 15% more because you were born male is a privilege that actually does have significant benefit. https://www.forbes.com/sites/josiecox/2025/03/05/over-the-last-two-decades-the-us-gender-pay-gap-has-hardly-moved/
I note you have no examples for the demands trans people have made. Yet their demands are a big enough problem in your initial comment to warrant first mention.
Gotta say, these big unfair reverse-bias microsexisms you cite seem pretty damn insignificant in the grand scheme of society. Meanwhile… trans people are literally being murdered quite regularly for being trans, being told which bathroom to use by legislation (and then regularly being attacked and beaten for using the legallg mandated bathroom), being banned from sports, banned from military service, constantly maligned in the mainstream media (sadly OAN and Fox are mainsteam), etc. Women are being legislated against using birth control and dying from easily preventable complications of childbirth due to draconian anti-abortion laws. Still experiencing domestic violent and sexual assault at rates absolutely dwarfing those of men.
Right wing guys: society hates men. Left gone too far. Ladies and trans get so many the benefits. Lady got to be in photo! 😡
Ah. I see you completely ignored one of the 2 examples. You’re also assuming I’m in the US (which I’m not, I’m a Spaniard). You only mentioned the photo thing, but completely ignored the entrepreneurship program.
I only mentioned the photo thing because for years I’ve been hearing that we live in a sexist society because some films don’t pass the bechdel test (idk if it’s spelled like that, I hope you know what I mean). Yet when men are completely erased from media then it’s because they are neck bearded fat guys. Again, this is not the US, this is Spain, the boys are fit good looking young men. Of course, my girlfriend is way prettier, but the boys are not ugly.
I didn’t give examples for the trans thing because I thought it to be self-evident and writing these posts take quite a bit of time. But here you go:
(Below when I say trans I mean “some trans and allies”, of course not all of them think 100% the same)
Also, the order of the issues neither in this comment nor in the previous one is in any way related to importance, IDK why you assumed that in the first place. And again, IDK why you assume US, most of the 7th paragraph only applies to the US. If trans were just saying “we exist, let us exist, don’t hate us just for existing” like the rest of LGB, I don’t think it would be an issue. Instead they say “we exist, and even if we are the 0.001% (made up number), we demand 50% of society’s focus, and if you don’t treat us exactly the way we want, then you’re a nazi”.
EDIT: sure, just ignore the concerns and read only the “weak” ones. And young men turning right will be as surprising to you as people not liking AI is surprising to Microsoft execs.
I didn’t presume you were in the US, all of the examples I used of recent trans oppression apply to more than just the US but it’s true I was thinking of them while writing it. I’m not in the US either.
Mate, your five examples of trans demands are literally all wrong.
Gender is not sex. Gender is not binary, nor is sex. These are not scientifically controversial ideas. They are long studied norms.
What is the impact to you or anyone else of 2,3,4,5? Remember we’re discussing issues that are not falling into the category of “if this isn’t hurting anyone then hey none of my business” and “everyone deserves equal care”. Very, very few women are impacted by 1, most female (at birth) athletes are trans-inclusive - can easily Google hundreds of examples.
You have it flipped. Trans people weren’t asking for shit, dude. They just got turned into the scapegoat of the right wing. I pay my taxes… And if some guy gets testosterone therapy because he’s 50 and his testosterone has started to decline and he needs gender affirming care, that’s fine - that’s good. Same for an older woman needing oestrogen therapy - great, help her out. Why would I suddenly give a crap if some struggling person wants trans treatment and it’s recommended by the medical establishment?? Likewise if some lady who used to be a boy 20 years ago is really embarrassed and harassed every time she passes through an airport by customs and security questioning why her passport says ‘male’ - fair enough, that must suck.
And then there’s people like you, who unquestioningly accept these ‘demands’ as unreasonable - because someone told you they are.
Reconsider.
P. S. Love that it’s ok for you to gloss over direct questions, but for me to accept points and not respond to every single one is to “completely ignore” them. I do not have to acknowledge every single point in long comments. We’d be here forever.
I realize you’re being flippant and over-exaggerating, but statements like this make you look exactly like the right-winger you claim not to be. Trans people do just want to exist without being subjugated and stigmatized (which is definitely currently happening). None are making any such overbearing demands as you claim.
First of all. We probably don’t agree on what gender is. You’re treating it as a matter of fact and that you’re right and I’m wrong. And then you’re using that definition to base most of the rest of the arguments.
So if you want to convince me with those arguments, you have to first give a definition of man/woman that satisfies me.
You claim that those demands don’t affect me, but they do. Every financial help that the government offers affects everyone, since everyone is paying for it. In general changing any rule/law affects everyone in one way or another.
The gay movement was different, they mostly demanded societal change. The only rule/law I can think of that was changed for them is about marriage. Which we mostly all accepted since we as a society were more accepting because of the previous societal change.
With trans, however, they are demanding changes to rules/laws without previous societal change. They haven’t yet come up with a definition of gender that most people agree to, you can’t change rules/laws for things that most people don’t even agree if it exists or not.
Its not my job to educate you, and nobody ever changed someone’s opinion forcibly. If you want to learn about scientific facts of gender then read about it - nothing I’ve written above is scientifically controversial.
Good luck on your journey, here’s a couple starting points.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/heres-why-human-sex-is-not-binary/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender
For someone whose “job is not to educate me”, you’ve been pretty engaged in replying to every comment.
I’m educated. I know what the theory of gender you believe is, I just don’t think it is true. I can read a wikipedia article, but I cannot argue with it.
Yet again, I am left with no definition of man/woman given by a pro-trans person.