I read your argument, it was stupid. I thought it was important to point out.
Why was it stupid? First of all it is only a slur to someone who is mentally delayed. It wasn’t being used in that context and it is clearly not punching down. It is an argument an idiot would make. Cheers!
That’s a poorly reasoned take. Slurs are only slurs if someone’s around to hear it? That’s definitely not how that works. Additionally, groups that are not necessarily mentally delayed (waves in autistic) get painted with that brush too. So even by your poor reasoning, it was a slur because I was there to see it.
It was also definitely punching down. It was the classic usage “Group X is like group Y and they’re bad because of the features they share”, specifically difficulty understanding new information in this context. Explain how it wasn’t that? How it didn’t draw an equality between them based upon the expressed undesirable feature of learning difficulties, thus implying that the intellectually disabled are less because of it?
So calling someone a common racial epithet always a slur? Ignoring context is stupid because it is willfully ignorance. Clearly context matters.
Furthermore who defines it as as a slur. I know someone who is mentally delayed that throws around the retard word all the time. Are you offended for them?
Also retardation has fallen out of favor for medical diagnosis. It has not fallen out of favor for a general insult, no matter how badly you want it to. Once again, ignoring context.
Lastly punching down refers to social ridicule from a high standing group to a low standing group. This did not happen. You are clearly wrong to say it did.
So yeah you are acting stupid and you continue to double down on the stupidity like it is a badge of honor.
So calling someone a removed is always a slur? Ignoring context is stupid because it is willfully ignorance. Clearly context matters.
So dropping the n-slur when no black people are around strips it of its history and the connotations used by the speaker? History is part of the context. Tone is part of the context. Both were present.
I know someone who is mentally developed that throws around the retard word all the time. Are you offended for them?
I’ll assume you meant developmentally delayed. I don’t care for it, but that’s getting into ‘reclaiming the word’ territory, which is not what this conversation is about.
Also retardation has fallen out of favor for medical diagnosis. It has not fallen out of favor for a general insult, no matter how badly you want it to. Once again, ignoring context.
The existence of this conversation and my general net upvote (with a nod that lemmy is not a complete demographic, nor do a few comments do an informed study make) rather disproves that. It was out of favor for a long ass time. It was scumbags like Joe Rogan who brought it back. Words evolve past their history. A point I have at no point refuted, merely rejected the argument that this is relevant. One must show that the evolution has changed it sufficiently to no longer be a slur. It still bears its history and current status of being a slur despite falling out of medical favor.
Lastly punching down refers to social ridicule from a high standing group to a low standing group.
The individual, presumably not disabled, used the intellectually disabled as an insult against others. While perhaps not directly social ridicule it’s not exactly promoting social standing. I’ll grant that they were not attacked directly and thus punching down is not the most appropriate term. What was done was definitely a sibling and still a shitty thing to do.
So yeah you are acting stupid and you continue to double down on the stupidity like it is a badge of honor.
You fundamentally misunderstand. I see an offensive thing. I make a single comment that spiraled in a big way. I defend my position and await a compelling argument to convince me otherwise, which has not arisen. I’ve even had some good faith debate and conceded a few things in this mess. Your arguments just aren’t landing for the reason’s I’m spending too much time and effort on.
I’ll admit that my taunts were in poor taste. It doesn’t induce good faith debate to insult.
Black people don’t view as a slur, they took it back like the Chicanos did. The major difference is they didn’t fully take it back so it is both a source of unity and disrespect. That is on them for trying to take back a word they don’t want others to use.
We collectively as a society stopped using retardation as a medical diagnosis. The rest of what you say is nonsense.
Glad you can admit the punching down was nonsense.
Speaking of spirals, I just said it was a dumb take because you forgot context and added in some bullshit about punching down. This is objectively true so I am not sure why you need to keep going on and on.
Black people are not a monolith and I’d be dead in the street if I said that in the wrong neighborhood. This is also irrelevant as that is more about reclamation than the status as a slur (which it is). It would matter if the original usage was performed by one who was disabled, for which we have no evidence nor reason to assume.
We collectively as a society stopped using retardation as a medical diagnosis. The rest of what you say is nonsense.
So history, the appeals of advocacy groups, the direct rejection of what you say by someone who would have been called such not long enough ago is irrelevant? Context only matters when it helps you I guess?
Glad you can admit the punching down was nonsense.
Linguistic imprecision is hardly the most salient point. My inability to name a better term for the wrong done does not remove the wrong.
Speaking of spirals, I just said it was a dumb take because you forgot context and added in some bullshit about punching down. This is objectively true so I am not sure why you need to keep going on and on.
I’ve listed off context multiple times. You have failed to refute any of it.
You’re rather arrogant to aspire to objective truth. Even I’m not doing that and I’m having trouble breathing from my high horse. Sociology and linguistics are not the land of objective truth. It speaks ill of your reasoning abilities that you believe that is what you’re doing.
Edit: I continue because you haven’t convinced me. Do so and I’ll yield.
So you admit that slurs are not always slurs and that context matters. This context was missing for you to call it a slur to begin with. There was no mentally delayed person being called a retard. Glad we can agree your original comment was half-baked.
What are you left with again? Oh yes a lie about a slur and a false usage of punching down. Stop bloviating, this is the beginning and end of it.
Nope, it is my well informed opinion after reading all your comments. Your take is incredibly stupid and ignores context.
Well with such a compelling, well reasoned argument, I’ll have to concede. Well done.
I read your argument, it was stupid. I thought it was important to point out.
Why was it stupid? First of all it is only a slur to someone who is mentally delayed. It wasn’t being used in that context and it is clearly not punching down. It is an argument an idiot would make. Cheers!
That’s a poorly reasoned take. Slurs are only slurs if someone’s around to hear it? That’s definitely not how that works. Additionally, groups that are not necessarily mentally delayed (waves in autistic) get painted with that brush too. So even by your poor reasoning, it was a slur because I was there to see it.
It was also definitely punching down. It was the classic usage “Group X is like group Y and they’re bad because of the features they share”, specifically difficulty understanding new information in this context. Explain how it wasn’t that? How it didn’t draw an equality between them based upon the expressed undesirable feature of learning difficulties, thus implying that the intellectually disabled are less because of it?
So, yeah. You’re taunting me. Really badly.
So calling someone a common racial epithet always a slur? Ignoring context is stupid because it is willfully ignorance. Clearly context matters.
Furthermore who defines it as as a slur. I know someone who is mentally delayed that throws around the retard word all the time. Are you offended for them?
Also retardation has fallen out of favor for medical diagnosis. It has not fallen out of favor for a general insult, no matter how badly you want it to. Once again, ignoring context.
Lastly punching down refers to social ridicule from a high standing group to a low standing group. This did not happen. You are clearly wrong to say it did.
So yeah you are acting stupid and you continue to double down on the stupidity like it is a badge of honor.
So dropping the n-slur when no black people are around strips it of its history and the connotations used by the speaker? History is part of the context. Tone is part of the context. Both were present.
Society as a whole generally does that. We collectively decided 20 or so years ago that it was a bad thing to do. And the world was better for it. But that is a bad argument. Advocacy groups publishing articles reasoning far better than I regarding its status as hate speech is probably the better angle.
I’ll assume you meant developmentally delayed. I don’t care for it, but that’s getting into ‘reclaiming the word’ territory, which is not what this conversation is about.
The existence of this conversation and my general net upvote (with a nod that lemmy is not a complete demographic, nor do a few comments do an informed study make) rather disproves that. It was out of favor for a long ass time. It was scumbags like Joe Rogan who brought it back. Words evolve past their history. A point I have at no point refuted, merely rejected the argument that this is relevant. One must show that the evolution has changed it sufficiently to no longer be a slur. It still bears its history and current status of being a slur despite falling out of medical favor.
The individual, presumably not disabled, used the intellectually disabled as an insult against others. While perhaps not directly social ridicule it’s not exactly promoting social standing. I’ll grant that they were not attacked directly and thus punching down is not the most appropriate term. What was done was definitely a sibling and still a shitty thing to do.
You fundamentally misunderstand. I see an offensive thing. I make a single comment that spiraled in a big way. I defend my position and await a compelling argument to convince me otherwise, which has not arisen. I’ve even had some good faith debate and conceded a few things in this mess. Your arguments just aren’t landing for the reason’s I’m spending too much time and effort on.
I’ll admit that my taunts were in poor taste. It doesn’t induce good faith debate to insult.
Black people don’t view as a slur, they took it back like the Chicanos did. The major difference is they didn’t fully take it back so it is both a source of unity and disrespect. That is on them for trying to take back a word they don’t want others to use.
We collectively as a society stopped using retardation as a medical diagnosis. The rest of what you say is nonsense.
Glad you can admit the punching down was nonsense.
Speaking of spirals, I just said it was a dumb take because you forgot context and added in some bullshit about punching down. This is objectively true so I am not sure why you need to keep going on and on.
Black people are not a monolith and I’d be dead in the street if I said that in the wrong neighborhood. This is also irrelevant as that is more about reclamation than the status as a slur (which it is). It would matter if the original usage was performed by one who was disabled, for which we have no evidence nor reason to assume.
So history, the appeals of advocacy groups, the direct rejection of what you say by someone who would have been called such not long enough ago is irrelevant? Context only matters when it helps you I guess?
Linguistic imprecision is hardly the most salient point. My inability to name a better term for the wrong done does not remove the wrong.
I’ve listed off context multiple times. You have failed to refute any of it.
You’re rather arrogant to aspire to objective truth. Even I’m not doing that and I’m having trouble breathing from my high horse. Sociology and linguistics are not the land of objective truth. It speaks ill of your reasoning abilities that you believe that is what you’re doing.
Edit: I continue because you haven’t convinced me. Do so and I’ll yield.
So you admit that slurs are not always slurs and that context matters. This context was missing for you to call it a slur to begin with. There was no mentally delayed person being called a retard. Glad we can agree your original comment was half-baked.
What are you left with again? Oh yes a lie about a slur and a false usage of punching down. Stop bloviating, this is the beginning and end of it.