understood, all the hadiths were created after Muhammad lived and all were passed through some number of people.
even the quran wasn’t actually compiled in to a single book until after his death and relied on a lot of memorised spoken word.
its all sketchy but when people cherry pick which they like and which they don’t, it can become foolish really, imho.
it’s either all the “word of god” or none of it is (thats my logic obviously, I don’t expect everyone to agree).
what I quoted is from a hadith that is very widely accepted. and if that isn’t enough then I don’t know how you can accept any hadith based on the same criteria.
if you don’t follow the surrah then many (most) would consider you kafir.
There is a small but existent group of Quranic muslims, who accept only Quran as the complete and total revelation from Allah.
But I resist the urge to start going through different sects and their views on their religion, rather I’d focus here on the historical aspect of what an arabian couple did or did not do on their wedding night some 1400 years ago, and that the strongest evidence is something that has passed through six people until eventually written down a couple of hundred years after the event.
yeah I hear you, for my part quranists are an interesting one as so much of the actual practices require some observance of the hadiths, such as explaining how to pray and perform Hajj. although from a logical point of view I do sympathise with the want to stay as close to the teaching of the prophet as they can. as to the historical side of what happened 1400 years ago, well it’s all a wash to me, we’ll never know.
To me the the hadiths are against what is said in the Quran about it being complete and sufficient. If it’s not, then those surahs are wrong, which takes some credibility off of it.
In comparison the New Testament is supposedly about Jesus, but a huge part of it is actually texts written by Paul who never even met Jesus (at least in flesh)
I agree with everything you’ve said, either the teachings of the prophet are the word of god or they aren’t, I have never quite understood the acceptance of revelations by non prophets or teachings that were created long after the prophets death, doesn’t matter which prophet we’re talking about.
but again I’m just speaking of my own thoughts on the matter. people can, obviously, believe what they like.
understood, all the hadiths were created after Muhammad lived and all were passed through some number of people. even the quran wasn’t actually compiled in to a single book until after his death and relied on a lot of memorised spoken word. its all sketchy but when people cherry pick which they like and which they don’t, it can become foolish really, imho. it’s either all the “word of god” or none of it is (thats my logic obviously, I don’t expect everyone to agree). what I quoted is from a hadith that is very widely accepted. and if that isn’t enough then I don’t know how you can accept any hadith based on the same criteria. if you don’t follow the surrah then many (most) would consider you kafir.
There is a small but existent group of Quranic muslims, who accept only Quran as the complete and total revelation from Allah.
But I resist the urge to start going through different sects and their views on their religion, rather I’d focus here on the historical aspect of what an arabian couple did or did not do on their wedding night some 1400 years ago, and that the strongest evidence is something that has passed through six people until eventually written down a couple of hundred years after the event.
yeah I hear you, for my part quranists are an interesting one as so much of the actual practices require some observance of the hadiths, such as explaining how to pray and perform Hajj. although from a logical point of view I do sympathise with the want to stay as close to the teaching of the prophet as they can. as to the historical side of what happened 1400 years ago, well it’s all a wash to me, we’ll never know.
To me the the hadiths are against what is said in the Quran about it being complete and sufficient. If it’s not, then those surahs are wrong, which takes some credibility off of it.
https://beyond-islam.org/spiritual-ethical-foundations/the-quran-is-complete/
In comparison the New Testament is supposedly about Jesus, but a huge part of it is actually texts written by Paul who never even met Jesus (at least in flesh)
https://biblehub.com/topical/t/the_case_against_paul.htm
In the end It’s Pauls teachings that divide christians, and it’s the hadiths that divide muslims.
I agree with everything you’ve said, either the teachings of the prophet are the word of god or they aren’t, I have never quite understood the acceptance of revelations by non prophets or teachings that were created long after the prophets death, doesn’t matter which prophet we’re talking about.
but again I’m just speaking of my own thoughts on the matter. people can, obviously, believe what they like.
Agreed, thank you for the insightful conversation
you too friend, have a good one!