Agreed, it sucks. But their admins are talking to our admins, and so far ours seem like they have their heads screwed on pretty well, so I’m sure it’ll only be for a short time.
Oust the shitheads, promote the stand-up sh.it.heads, I say.
To be honest I had no idea that people from this instance were doing it until one troll post bragging about getting us banned from Beehaw and explained how he did it, along with a comic book supervillian diatribe about how the Fediverse isn’t safe and long live Reddit.
I saw the same post the comment above is referring to and their description is accurate. And I also saw the offending post they put on beehaw. Some low effort troll homophobic thing. Their posts on both beehaw and sh.itjust.works were both quickly down voted and removed I think, because I couldn’t find either again shortly after I first saw it.
Who gets so weirdly defensive and territorial over a website? Not even their own one at that? I loved spending time on Reddit but I can’t imagine finding other website and deliberately trying to make them a shittier place because I like Reddit.
I’ve seen DDOS attacks launched between rival guilds of MMORPGs. People will find an excuse to be assholes to each other online.
The defederation of Beehaw.org to protect itself is a feature, not a bug. It sucks for the people involved, but I’m liking how the community has managed to come together in light of the actions. Defederating works: it allowed Beehaw.org to ban the trolls and continue their community discussions.
And I say this as a lemmy.world user who was (and still am) cut-off from Beehaw.org. I’d like to get access restored there ASAP, but you know, I’m glad to see that the new tools available here on the Fediverse that didn’t exist in Reddit-world.
Future attacks, invasions, and other such rivalries between communities will only grow bigger, harsher, more serious as time goes on. Consider this whole situation to be just a test of the times to come.
just a heads up, in the past beehaw has accused other instances of brigadding, and being bigots over disagreements that had nothing to do with the such (I know that becuase that was story 3 and 4 respectivly) there is a decent chance that they have done the blocking over a difrent reason (like to exert a level of control) and then back justified. I will be really honest, do not take the beehaw admins word at face value for anything
How though? The fediverse is… Federated. They can hop from server to server and be annoying to their heart’s content and everyone on every federated server will get exposed to it. That and the traditional tools of the trade whereby if your account ever gets banned, you just make a new one.
Instances can decide to federate only with other instances that share a common Code of Conduct.
That means the LGBTI can have their own set of federated instances, the Nazi can have their own set, the NSFW can have their own set, and so on. There is no requirement for every instance to federate with every other one.
every instance is accoutable for the actions of its users. if an instance is not vetting/managing its users wholesale then it gets defederated by other instances. basicially the network self-sorts. abuse instances get lumped to gather to bother each other.
we are always going to have individual users that try to game and abuse the system. email (another federated system) has evolved quite a few defences against just this class of attack - its not perfect, but it is manageable. you will end up with instances that are tightly content moderated, instances that are lightly content moderated and instances that are essentially 4chan or worse.
I am pretty sure we can build in mechanisms to make this tolerable. just my ramblings on the issue.
If we can’t say naughty words on lemmy I’ll have to find something else. Can’t there be a website with a middle ground between 4th reich HQ and baby preschool?
Can’t there be a website with a middle ground between 4th reich HQ and baby preschool?
Sometimes it feels like the internet is in an unstable equilibrium. A space starts off as a blank slate, not pulled in any particular direction. Then as soon as it gets a critical mass of either miserable jerks or stuck-up prudes, it spirals in that direction until it’s inhospitable to the average person.
Yeah, I’m sure it doesn’t feel great, but I didn’t get the sense that they were trying to personally attack everyone on the relevant servers, but more of a “we’re only four people, did not expect our instance to become a “default” community, and are completely underwater from a moderation perspective. We need to pull a rip cord to get this under control”
No Beehaw did not like how Sh.itjust.works and lemmy.world are run, did a complant session about how their mod tools are not talored to give them an excise of power on users not based in their instance, and then cut them off saying “they are willing to negotiate reopening.” Personaly I see this like union bargoning, we are stronger all sticking together and not bending to beehaws wims
From what I understand, beehaw was overwhelmed with rule-breaking content coming from lemmy.world and sh.it to the point that the 4 admin team and the mods couldn’t keep up, so they cut the problem at the source and defederated from those two.
The issue came from Reddit trolls taking advantage of lemmy.world and sh.it having open registration, so even if one account was banned, the trolls would just make another one and keep posting hateful content on Beehaw.
I think they were using the open sign ups to join and then harass people, a lot of which were in other instances, in particular beehaw.org. Now beehaw has defederated from sh.itjust.works and lemmy.world.
I don’t think this necessarily applies. Sometimes, people with extremist views really shouldn’t be given the time of day. If people are out here doing things like posting child porn or advocating for genocide for example, I think it’s perfectly valid to block them. Not everything is a slippery slope.
I think lots of instances, basically any of the ones that haven’t been defederated. You could also apply directly to beehaw.
lemmy.ml is still in with them, that’s probably the biggest. Kbin also works I think. Basically just pick one out of the list of instances at the bottom of any webpage.
I mean the easy solution is to have your instance enable registration screening. That’s what it’s for. It takes less than a minute to answer most instances’ registration yet (based on experience) that simple barrier is enough to stop most trolls.
Until a Lemmy instance gets large enough to actually hire full time admins to catch and remove abusive content ASAP, I don’t see instances reasonably being able to go without registration screening because the trolls will seize on that opportunity every time.
Admins of larger instances see it all the time:
New instance pops up, yay! And most instances automatically federate with new instances!
It doesn’t have registration screening, this is quickly discovered by trolls and adbots and the instance gets filled with rule breaking content.
Large instances start blocking it because by federating with an instance that is being used in this way degrades the quality of your own instance and adds a ton of workload to your (unpaid) mods and admins.
The instance eventually enables registration screening, and other instances start unblocking it.
It’s happened with plenty of instances before and will probably keep happening as long as spam and trolling exist.
When other instances have abstract requirements and a manual approval process that takes who-knows-how-long, though, that’s not always such an easy ask. People want to be where other people are, and those busier instances are the ones that set harder requirements.
When I left Reddit, I signed up on two instances: lemmy.ml and beehaw. I was eventually approved for lemmy.ml, but even now trying to access beehaw just hangs on the login page perpetually, presumably because I have not been approved and there’s nothing else I can do on my end.
Ironic that “accounts will be portable - if you don’t like the behaviour, practices, or community of one instance, you can take your data and leave” was touted as the big selling point of the Fediverse.
On more mature projects this is indeed the case. Lemmy only started federating like two years ago and is very much still in beta. We’ll get there eventually and it is already in the dev queue, but keep in mind that there are only two people working on the entire codebase full time. Don’t expect a Reddit level of fit and finish, but at the same time you also need not expect a Reddit level of corporate, shareholder-over-user antics.
Finally, since Lemmy is open source, if you really need a feature right now, then submit a pull request!
Get where? You appear to be responding from a technical perspective to a complaint about process. The complaint isn’t (primarily) that it is technically hard to migrate data, but that moderators themselves are putting deliberate barriers in the way of migration. It doesn’t matter how fast your car is if there are roadblocks every five meters.
One of the admins just had a post on beehaw saying their application waitlist had been over 5000 users long. And there are just a handful of them going through it.
They found ways to speed things up a bit so they say wait time should be like 24-48 hours.
welcome to the fediverse! Before you get “locked in” to a particular instance, take a look at your other choices and pick one that you might fit better in. https://fediverse.observer
It’s lousy being blocked by an entire section of the site and now labelled a bigot because some trolls made their accounts on the same instance as me.
Agreed, it sucks. But their admins are talking to our admins, and so far ours seem like they have their heads screwed on pretty well, so I’m sure it’ll only be for a short time.
Oust the shitheads, promote the stand-up sh.it.heads, I say.
To be honest I had no idea that people from this instance were doing it until one troll post bragging about getting us banned from Beehaw and explained how he did it, along with a comic book supervillian diatribe about how the Fediverse isn’t safe and long live Reddit.
The hell, lol… do you have a link to that post?
I saw the same post the comment above is referring to and their description is accurate. And I also saw the offending post they put on beehaw. Some low effort troll homophobic thing. Their posts on both beehaw and sh.itjust.works were both quickly down voted and removed I think, because I couldn’t find either again shortly after I first saw it.
Damn… Yeah, to be honest, it makes me understand things from beehaw’s perspective quite a bit, then.
I probably could find one but it’s best not to give trolls the attention they seek.
Good idea, and no worries!
Who gets so weirdly defensive and territorial over a website? Not even their own one at that? I loved spending time on Reddit but I can’t imagine finding other website and deliberately trying to make them a shittier place because I like Reddit.
This will keep happening.
I’ve seen DDOS attacks launched between rival guilds of MMORPGs. People will find an excuse to be assholes to each other online.
The defederation of Beehaw.org to protect itself is a feature, not a bug. It sucks for the people involved, but I’m liking how the community has managed to come together in light of the actions. Defederating works: it allowed Beehaw.org to ban the trolls and continue their community discussions.
And I say this as a lemmy.world user who was (and still am) cut-off from Beehaw.org. I’d like to get access restored there ASAP, but you know, I’m glad to see that the new tools available here on the Fediverse that didn’t exist in Reddit-world.
Future attacks, invasions, and other such rivalries between communities will only grow bigger, harsher, more serious as time goes on. Consider this whole situation to be just a test of the times to come.
just a heads up, in the past beehaw has accused other instances of brigadding, and being bigots over disagreements that had nothing to do with the such (I know that becuase that was story 3 and 4 respectivly) there is a decent chance that they have done the blocking over a difrent reason (like to exert a level of control) and then back justified. I will be really honest, do not take the beehaw admins word at face value for anything
The internet was a mistake
such users will eventually be relegated to their own little isolated fediverse.
How though? The fediverse is… Federated. They can hop from server to server and be annoying to their heart’s content and everyone on every federated server will get exposed to it. That and the traditional tools of the trade whereby if your account ever gets banned, you just make a new one.
yeah, but they all want to be together. For other examples look at shitposter.club noagendasocial.com etc.
and its certainly part of the reason gab.com decided to deactivate federation from their implementation of mastodon.
Instances can decide to federate only with other instances that share a common Code of Conduct.
That means the LGBTI can have their own set of federated instances, the Nazi can have their own set, the NSFW can have their own set, and so on. There is no requirement for every instance to federate with every other one.
every instance is accoutable for the actions of its users. if an instance is not vetting/managing its users wholesale then it gets defederated by other instances. basicially the network self-sorts. abuse instances get lumped to gather to bother each other.
we are always going to have individual users that try to game and abuse the system. email (another federated system) has evolved quite a few defences against just this class of attack - its not perfect, but it is manageable. you will end up with instances that are tightly content moderated, instances that are lightly content moderated and instances that are essentially 4chan or worse.
I am pretty sure we can build in mechanisms to make this tolerable. just my ramblings on the issue.
I mean, the url literally contains shit.
If we can’t say naughty words on lemmy I’ll have to find something else. Can’t there be a website with a middle ground between 4th reich HQ and baby preschool?
Sometimes it feels like the internet is in an unstable equilibrium. A space starts off as a blank slate, not pulled in any particular direction. Then as soon as it gets a critical mass of either miserable jerks or stuck-up prudes, it spirals in that direction until it’s inhospitable to the average person.
Thank you for bringing to light the phrase
sh.it.head, I am quite pleased with itYeah, I’m sure it doesn’t feel great, but I didn’t get the sense that they were trying to personally attack everyone on the relevant servers, but more of a “we’re only four people, did not expect our instance to become a “default” community, and are completely underwater from a moderation perspective. We need to pull a rip cord to get this under control”
Wait did sh.itjust.works do anything? I thought the story was that beehaw.org cut them and lemmy.world off, but only for people browsing on beehaw.
No Beehaw did not like how Sh.itjust.works and lemmy.world are run, did a complant session about how their mod tools are not talored to give them an excise of power on users not based in their instance, and then cut them off saying “they are willing to negotiate reopening.” Personaly I see this like union bargoning, we are stronger all sticking together and not bending to beehaws wims
There’s a lot of vagueness there. I’d be interested in hearing more details about what they want from mod tools.
From what I understand, beehaw was overwhelmed with rule-breaking content coming from lemmy.world and sh.it to the point that the 4 admin team and the mods couldn’t keep up, so they cut the problem at the source and defederated from those two.
The issue came from Reddit trolls taking advantage of lemmy.world and sh.it having open registration, so even if one account was banned, the trolls would just make another one and keep posting hateful content on Beehaw.
Man, if an instance had enough clout, like Mozilla, I’d absolutely pay $5 for an account, Something Awful style.
For context, what has happened?
I think they were using the open sign ups to join and then harass people, a lot of which were in other instances, in particular beehaw.org. Now beehaw has defederated from sh.itjust.works and lemmy.world.
Wait what the fuck…seriously??? Is that why I can no longer see Beehaw posts???
I was 100% on board with them defederating from lemmygrad, but now this is just getting fucking ridiculous.
From what instances can I access all content now (besides lemmygrad because I’m really not interested in them anyway)?
First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
I don’t think this necessarily applies. Sometimes, people with extremist views really shouldn’t be given the time of day. If people are out here doing things like posting child porn or advocating for genocide for example, I think it’s perfectly valid to block them. Not everything is a slippery slope.
deleted by creator
I think lots of instances, basically any of the ones that haven’t been defederated. You could also apply directly to beehaw.
lemmy.ml is still in with them, that’s probably the biggest. Kbin also works I think. Basically just pick one out of the list of instances at the bottom of any webpage.
I do have a beehaw account, but I had moved away from it because I didn’t like that I couldn’t make communities with it.
It’s just frustrating that one of the instances with the most content is fracturing away from others.
Who knows who they’ll defederate next and it’s obnoxious to try to keep up with it.
I wish I could at least still see the content. Not being able to interact with it I get, buy not being able to look at it is frustrating as hell.
I mean the easy solution is to have your instance enable registration screening. That’s what it’s for. It takes less than a minute to answer most instances’ registration yet (based on experience) that simple barrier is enough to stop most trolls.
Until a Lemmy instance gets large enough to actually hire full time admins to catch and remove abusive content ASAP, I don’t see instances reasonably being able to go without registration screening because the trolls will seize on that opportunity every time.
Admins of larger instances see it all the time:
New instance pops up, yay! And most instances automatically federate with new instances!
It doesn’t have registration screening, this is quickly discovered by trolls and adbots and the instance gets filled with rule breaking content.
Large instances start blocking it because by federating with an instance that is being used in this way degrades the quality of your own instance and adds a ton of workload to your (unpaid) mods and admins.
The instance eventually enables registration screening, and other instances start unblocking it.
It’s happened with plenty of instances before and will probably keep happening as long as spam and trolling exist.
Make an account in another instance, there are lots of them.
When other instances have abstract requirements and a manual approval process that takes who-knows-how-long, though, that’s not always such an easy ask. People want to be where other people are, and those busier instances are the ones that set harder requirements.
When I left Reddit, I signed up on two instances: lemmy.ml and beehaw. I was eventually approved for lemmy.ml, but even now trying to access beehaw just hangs on the login page perpetually, presumably because I have not been approved and there’s nothing else I can do on my end.
Ironic that “accounts will be portable - if you don’t like the behaviour, practices, or community of one instance, you can take your data and leave” was touted as the big selling point of the Fediverse.
On more mature projects this is indeed the case. Lemmy only started federating like two years ago and is very much still in beta. We’ll get there eventually and it is already in the dev queue, but keep in mind that there are only two people working on the entire codebase full time. Don’t expect a Reddit level of fit and finish, but at the same time you also need not expect a Reddit level of corporate, shareholder-over-user antics.
Finally, since Lemmy is open source, if you really need a feature right now, then submit a pull request!
Get where? You appear to be responding from a technical perspective to a complaint about process. The complaint isn’t (primarily) that it is technically hard to migrate data, but that moderators themselves are putting deliberate barriers in the way of migration. It doesn’t matter how fast your car is if there are roadblocks every five meters.
One of the admins just had a post on beehaw saying their application waitlist had been over 5000 users long. And there are just a handful of them going through it.
They found ways to speed things up a bit so they say wait time should be like 24-48 hours.
Not all instances do that. Many instances accept you right away.
At the bottom of any webpage (rather than the app) there is an Instances link that lists pretty much all of them. Click a few that catch your eye.
welcome to the fediverse! Before you get “locked in” to a particular instance, take a look at your other choices and pick one that you might fit better in. https://fediverse.observer