EU chief calls for a bloc-wide push on an age verification app to protect children online. If enforced, users will have to prove their age to access legally restricted sites.
I see how this would be considered a problem in the US.
In Europe we see these things differently. I have a number of apps already, that knows my government id. Honestly I don’t know how many, I haven’t needed to keep track.
All sorts of apps from drivers license to a social networking app, which all needs to know my exact id to work. Even my kids has their government id on their phones. This includes an app which only purpose is to prove the users identity.
Having one more appwith your id is not a problem. Specially when its purpos is to NOT show your id.
Clearly, if you’re really from Europe (and not just a paid propagandist or troll), you’re not from one of those countries which freed themselves from some dictatorship or other recently enough for most people in that country having themselves or their parents been alive during the dictatorship days.
One thing is some kind of passive ID, be it in a card or in digital format, another very different thing is software running on your devices which is capable of automatically reporting to the authorities everything you do.
As the US is showing right now, it doesn’t take much to go from absolutelly legit activity - say having an abortion - and innocent apps with some kind of “phone home” ability - say something to help women track their periods - doing no harm to anybody, to extreme prison sentences (for murder, even) and said apps being used to catch and prosecute women for it.
Anybody who has even just heard the stories from their parents and grandparents about whatever the version of the Stasi in their country used to do in the Dictatorship days would be profoundly against any “report to the authorities” software even if it’s sold by politicians as “think of the children”.
you’re not from one of those countries which freed themselves from some dictatorship or other recently
This is true.
software running on your devices which is capable of automatically reporting to the authorities everything you do.
This would be my only government app that is NOT capable of doing that, because it’s open source. If they start doing that, it will be all over the media.
I already have at least 7 apps where that could do that and get away with it. That should be the concern, not this new app.
As the US is showing right now, it doesn’t take much to go from absolutelly legit activity
If our government was like yours (even the way it was before Teump), I would be as concerned as you are. But it’s not.
I’m making the bet that if the government changes, I will have time to adapt. (Yes, I could be wrong.)
profoundly against any “report to the authorities”
Yeah, but that’s not what’s happening here, so I don’t feel like discussing that here.
First, government id has a very different ring here, than in the us. It’s not that different from a name or a face. It’s not s big deal. Almost anytime there’s any need to be recognized formally, the government id is an easy way to do it.
We don’t really use “all names and addresses you’ve had the past 5 years” and all that.
So think about any app, where you need to id yourself better than just an email adress or phone number. It will be all of those.
I have an app to access my medical record. Nobody accesses my medical record without identifying themselves, in a trustworthy way.
My bank app, with access to all my financials, including pension funds - same deal.
There’s a payment app that is very popular here, the kids uses it too. It requires id. That id solves some issues that could have been solved in other ways, but since id is no big deal here, that’s the easiest solution by far.
Exactly. We’re not afraid of government overreach, but corporate overreach. In the US it’s the opposite (if you include regulatory capture as government overreach). Both regions are underestimating risks in one of these areas. Dictatorship and oligarchy can happen and we should be careful
I’m an European (specifically from an EU country). I was born still in a Dictatorship, before the Revolution which brought Democracy, and I grew up hearing the stories of Censorship and the Political Police arresting people for criticizing the local Dictator.
I don’t know who your “we” is, but it sure as hell ain’t me or most of my countrymen.
A mandatory Government app on your phone is the kind of thing that rings alarm bells in people’s minds around here because it stinks of Dictatorship and is a wet dream come true for a Political Police.
I lived elsewhere in Europe, so I can understand that people in countries which have long been stable and Democratic (say, The Netherlands and all of Scandinavia), have no memory of Authoritarianism and think that the Authorities only ever act for the greater good (which is why, for example, Swedes have zero concerns about every single payment they do ending up in a database), but pretty much everbody from Southern and Eastern Europe have either direct memories or heard the stories of just how bad the Authorities can be and just how bad it is to let them know what you’re doing.
I see how this would be considered a problem in the US.
In Europe we see these things differently. I have a number of apps already, that knows my government id. Honestly I don’t know how many, I haven’t needed to keep track.
All sorts of apps from drivers license to a social networking app, which all needs to know my exact id to work. Even my kids has their government id on their phones. This includes an app which only purpose is to prove the users identity.
Having one more appwith your id is not a problem. Specially when its purpos is to NOT show your id.
Clearly, if you’re really from Europe (and not just a paid propagandist or troll), you’re not from one of those countries which freed themselves from some dictatorship or other recently enough for most people in that country having themselves or their parents been alive during the dictatorship days.
One thing is some kind of passive ID, be it in a card or in digital format, another very different thing is software running on your devices which is capable of automatically reporting to the authorities everything you do.
As the US is showing right now, it doesn’t take much to go from absolutelly legit activity - say having an abortion - and innocent apps with some kind of “phone home” ability - say something to help women track their periods - doing no harm to anybody, to extreme prison sentences (for murder, even) and said apps being used to catch and prosecute women for it.
Anybody who has even just heard the stories from their parents and grandparents about whatever the version of the Stasi in their country used to do in the Dictatorship days would be profoundly against any “report to the authorities” software even if it’s sold by politicians as “think of the children”.
This is true.
This would be my only government app that is NOT capable of doing that, because it’s open source. If they start doing that, it will be all over the media.
I already have at least 7 apps where that could do that and get away with it. That should be the concern, not this new app.
If our government was like yours (even the way it was before Teump), I would be as concerned as you are. But it’s not.
I’m making the bet that if the government changes, I will have time to adapt. (Yes, I could be wrong.)
Yeah, but that’s not what’s happening here, so I don’t feel like discussing that here.
Why does any of your apps need to involve a government ID? Why do kids need ID on their phone?
First, government id has a very different ring here, than in the us. It’s not that different from a name or a face. It’s not s big deal. Almost anytime there’s any need to be recognized formally, the government id is an easy way to do it.
We don’t really use “all names and addresses you’ve had the past 5 years” and all that.
So think about any app, where you need to id yourself better than just an email adress or phone number. It will be all of those.
I have an app to access my medical record. Nobody accesses my medical record without identifying themselves, in a trustworthy way.
My bank app, with access to all my financials, including pension funds - same deal.
There’s a payment app that is very popular here, the kids uses it too. It requires id. That id solves some issues that could have been solved in other ways, but since id is no big deal here, that’s the easiest solution by far.
Exactly. We’re not afraid of government overreach, but corporate overreach. In the US it’s the opposite (if you include regulatory capture as government overreach). Both regions are underestimating risks in one of these areas. Dictatorship and oligarchy can happen and we should be careful
I’m an European (specifically from an EU country). I was born still in a Dictatorship, before the Revolution which brought Democracy, and I grew up hearing the stories of Censorship and the Political Police arresting people for criticizing the local Dictator.
I don’t know who your “we” is, but it sure as hell ain’t me or most of my countrymen.
A mandatory Government app on your phone is the kind of thing that rings alarm bells in people’s minds around here because it stinks of Dictatorship and is a wet dream come true for a Political Police.
I lived elsewhere in Europe, so I can understand that people in countries which have long been stable and Democratic (say, The Netherlands and all of Scandinavia), have no memory of Authoritarianism and think that the Authorities only ever act for the greater good (which is why, for example, Swedes have zero concerns about every single payment they do ending up in a database), but pretty much everbody from Southern and Eastern Europe have either direct memories or heard the stories of just how bad the Authorities can be and just how bad it is to let them know what you’re doing.