The lowest ever viewing figures, an identity crisis for the show and a confusing Billie Piper-based cliffhanger – whoever takes on the BBC fantasy drama has quite the job on their hands …
Hot take but I think Davies Killed Who in his first run and the show’s been spinning out since then.
The show became too focused on Tennant, who became too powerful & since then it’s been tough to fix the scaling problems that left behind (if he can threaten anyone into backing down how do you write a good badie?), I also think Davies tendency to run back to Tennant every chance he gets is pretty annoying.
That’s not say it hasn’t been a great show since then, it’s just very difficult to maintain tension when you have elevated the main character(s) to literal gods, see also Stargate.
I mean I love the show and thought Gatwa & Whittaker were good doctors (except for the whole Flux thing), but each new doctor is either disliked for not being Tennant or for being too “woke”.
Gatwa was great. I compare him mostly to the 9th Doctor in the spectrum of regens. I agree, though, the stakes and the production have gotten a bit too… much. The spectacle of some of these seasons and episodes has become overly complicated and flashy, but they feel like they’re missing something that I can’t quite put into words.
Some of that I place on myself. I’m older now, more experienced. I can’t expect Doctor Who to hit the same way it did when I watched The Doctor’s Daughter for the first time at 13. It feels… like it’s pandering half the time, and that’s disappointing because the Gatwa stuff has the beginnings of some good, classic Who, but it always seems to shy away from it somehow and go in a different direction.
I think the show needs two things.
1: It needs to get away from Disney because Disney always sands off the nuance of an IP to make it fit better in its wheelhouse.
2:It needs to make a left turn. Have the Doctor lose the TARDIS for a few seasons. Put them on a generational ship or strand them on a planet like Earth again.
Personally, I’d like to see them break with linear storytelling and do a few seasons with the Fugitive Doctor. If they can find a way to do that without constantly reminding me that she’s the “Timeless Child,” I would be so down to watch it. Take it back to fundamentals: the Doctor, on the run, doing good. The end of a season isn’t a reality-shattering event; it’s getting arrested.
“Flux” was better than it had any right to be under Covid filming restrictions. And they did some bold swings, and crammed them into a condensed season, which is gutsy in any normal context.
I wish they’d connected the dots a little better, particularly in the finale, but it’s as bonkers as “Trial of a Time Lord” which I also have a soft spot for.
I can’t get behind the “killed Who” sentiment, given the massive popularity that started with his first run, but he certainly has…certain tendencies that I’m not a big fan of, especially when it comes to finales.
“killed Who” is my hot take phrasing, but I guess I want I meant is more that the decision made locked the show into decline because he couldn’t come back from decisions that at the time I liked, but in retrospect made it hard for the show to evolve.
I don’t think Who is dead, I hope it can keep going (ideally on a smaller budget) indefinitely, I just think in retrospect what to many fans was peak Who, actually set up it’s decline.
Yeah, I could probably go on for hours with my various, sometimes contradictory, thoughts about the state of affairs.
And hell, I probably will at some point, because what else are we going to do around here for the foreseeable future?
For now, I’ll just say that for better or worse, I think RTD picked up where he left off with this era, and made pretty much the same show he did back in '05.
But the '05 audience has changed since then, and this era didn’t seem to attract a new generation of fans (at least, not in sufficient numbers).
I was thinking about the show so far, and I would put the current situation at Chibnall’s feet, not Davies’. Davies ramped up the stakes, sure, but all of Moffat’s run was basically just releasing all of that lingering Davies-era pressure and resetting Doctor Who back to baseline. When he left, the Time Lords were back, the Doctor was mostly healed emotionally, and the Doctor’s closing words were about being kind, not vengeful. Yes, we still had some big events, but each one was more contained in its own way.
I would say that Moffat worked hard to close the chapter on the Davies-era changes and bring storylines down to more reasonable levels. Then Chibnall showed up and ramped them back up.
I mean, it was his right to do so, but while Moffat tried to put the “toys back in the box,” so to speak, Chibnall basically glued the bricks together in a way he liked, and now we’re all living with those changes. I’m sure it will be fine. The IP just needs a rest or that left turn I mentioned earlier.
True, it’s hard to justify making a show evolve when its current form is arguably the most popular it’s ever been (in the Davies years). I actually preferred Moffat’s run. I think the Ponds were great companions, and while it does go off the wall at points, it puts a lampshade on it by having characters go out of their way to tell the Doctor that he’s changed and it’s a problem. Unfortunately, the show didn’t really course-correct after that arc.
I would say Tennant is my Doctor, but that’s because he was my first Doctor. Smith’s storylines, in general, are more engaging and better paced without the angst.
Hot take but I think Davies Killed Who in his first run and the show’s been spinning out since then.
The show became too focused on Tennant, who became too powerful & since then it’s been tough to fix the scaling problems that left behind (if he can threaten anyone into backing down how do you write a good badie?), I also think Davies tendency to run back to Tennant every chance he gets is pretty annoying.
That’s not say it hasn’t been a great show since then, it’s just very difficult to maintain tension when you have elevated the main character(s) to literal gods, see also Stargate.
I mean I love the show and thought Gatwa & Whittaker were good doctors (except for the whole Flux thing), but each new doctor is either disliked for not being Tennant or for being too “woke”.
Gatwa was great. I compare him mostly to the 9th Doctor in the spectrum of regens. I agree, though, the stakes and the production have gotten a bit too… much. The spectacle of some of these seasons and episodes has become overly complicated and flashy, but they feel like they’re missing something that I can’t quite put into words.
Some of that I place on myself. I’m older now, more experienced. I can’t expect Doctor Who to hit the same way it did when I watched The Doctor’s Daughter for the first time at 13. It feels… like it’s pandering half the time, and that’s disappointing because the Gatwa stuff has the beginnings of some good, classic Who, but it always seems to shy away from it somehow and go in a different direction.
I think the show needs two things.
1: It needs to get away from Disney because Disney always sands off the nuance of an IP to make it fit better in its wheelhouse.
2:It needs to make a left turn. Have the Doctor lose the TARDIS for a few seasons. Put them on a generational ship or strand them on a planet like Earth again.
Personally, I’d like to see them break with linear storytelling and do a few seasons with the Fugitive Doctor. If they can find a way to do that without constantly reminding me that she’s the “Timeless Child,” I would be so down to watch it. Take it back to fundamentals: the Doctor, on the run, doing good. The end of a season isn’t a reality-shattering event; it’s getting arrested.
I kind of agree with this. Davies pushed interest rates to zero which generated a major short term boom but robbed the future of it’s staying power.
I might be one of the only people who liked the Flux arc (or at least didn’t dislike it) but that’s largely due to Whittaker’s charisma.
“Flux” was better than it had any right to be under Covid filming restrictions. And they did some bold swings, and crammed them into a condensed season, which is gutsy in any normal context.
I wish they’d connected the dots a little better, particularly in the finale, but it’s as bonkers as “Trial of a Time Lord” which I also have a soft spot for.
the only bad thing about flux is that thasmin should have been canon as a result of it.
That’s more generous than I’m willing to be towards “Flux” 🙂
At least Thasmin (in some form) was spelled large in the specials and “Power of the Doctor”… but it was a bit late in the day.
I can’t get behind the “killed Who” sentiment, given the massive popularity that started with his first run, but he certainly has…certain tendencies that I’m not a big fan of, especially when it comes to finales.
“killed Who” is my hot take phrasing, but I guess I want I meant is more that the decision made locked the show into decline because he couldn’t come back from decisions that at the time I liked, but in retrospect made it hard for the show to evolve.
I don’t think Who is dead, I hope it can keep going (ideally on a smaller budget) indefinitely, I just think in retrospect what to many fans was peak Who, actually set up it’s decline.
Yeah, I could probably go on for hours with my various, sometimes contradictory, thoughts about the state of affairs.
And hell, I probably will at some point, because what else are we going to do around here for the foreseeable future?
For now, I’ll just say that for better or worse, I think RTD picked up where he left off with this era, and made pretty much the same show he did back in '05.
But the '05 audience has changed since then, and this era didn’t seem to attract a new generation of fans (at least, not in sufficient numbers).
Hello again, I wanted to add to my thoughts.
I was thinking about the show so far, and I would put the current situation at Chibnall’s feet, not Davies’. Davies ramped up the stakes, sure, but all of Moffat’s run was basically just releasing all of that lingering Davies-era pressure and resetting Doctor Who back to baseline. When he left, the Time Lords were back, the Doctor was mostly healed emotionally, and the Doctor’s closing words were about being kind, not vengeful. Yes, we still had some big events, but each one was more contained in its own way.
I would say that Moffat worked hard to close the chapter on the Davies-era changes and bring storylines down to more reasonable levels. Then Chibnall showed up and ramped them back up.
I mean, it was his right to do so, but while Moffat tried to put the “toys back in the box,” so to speak, Chibnall basically glued the bricks together in a way he liked, and now we’re all living with those changes. I’m sure it will be fine. The IP just needs a rest or that left turn I mentioned earlier.
True, it’s hard to justify making a show evolve when its current form is arguably the most popular it’s ever been (in the Davies years). I actually preferred Moffat’s run. I think the Ponds were great companions, and while it does go off the wall at points, it puts a lampshade on it by having characters go out of their way to tell the Doctor that he’s changed and it’s a problem. Unfortunately, the show didn’t really course-correct after that arc.
I would say Tennant is my Doctor, but that’s because he was my first Doctor. Smith’s storylines, in general, are more engaging and better paced without the angst.