We don’t have a misunderstanding. You made a reductive argument, got challenged, and now you’re acting like invoking “basic physics” makes the engineering irrelevant.
Run your own scenario honestly. Holding 50 kph up a 6-degree grade with six adults is a high sustained wheel-power demand. If a vehicle only has 14 kW of continuous usable wheel power, ICE or EV, it probably is not doing that.
But that does not make the powertrain irrelevant. That is exactly the point you keep missing.
In an ICE vehicle, the rated power depends on RPM, gearing, transmission losses, and whether the engine can stay in its power band. In an EV, usable output depends on the motor, controller, battery, thermal limits, gearing, and peak-vs-continuous power. Those are not interchangeable systems just because the same physics applies to both.
So no, reducing the question to horsepower does not make sense. Reducing it to torque does not make sense either. That is just car-brained ICE framing.
The powertrain design is the point. Treating ICE, EV, horses, and flywheels as interchangeable for a real vehicle-performance question is not STEM literacy.
The right answer here is to buy one of these, for both of us to go to mexico and make two freinds each, go to an appropriate hill, and give it a shot.
Sure, but there’s still a floor defined by physics. With the right setup, it could lift 5000lbs up a cliff. But it might take a year and hundreds of recharges.
Yeah. That’s the entire point. The engineering changes the experience drastically.
You can’t just say watts are watts and be done with it. Its a reductive approach to do so.
Yeah but the point is given a certain amount of watts, there’s a maximum speed to lift no matter what the setup is. And it doesn’t matter whether you measure that power in Watts, horsepower or Pferdestärke - the maximum speed to lift a given weight is the same.
Its not “bottom line physics is the same” because the fucking aren’t. The actual construction of the fucking vehicle and its power train matters. This why everyone is dismissive of your point. You just straight up wrong here.
Go load up your wife’s Tesla 3 with 1k lbs of cinder blocks, and then find an equivalent stated HP ICE vehicle and do the same. Drive both of them up the same hill and tell me its the same thing. And if you TRULY want to experience the difference, find a manual transmission ICE equivalent.
It’s the same in terms of your maximum optimized speed. Power is power. An ice engine needs to rev high to get high power and an electric motor doesn’t (depending on how it’s wired). But if you optimize the drive train perfectly in either case, there is a maximum speed you can lift a given weight based on the power output of the engine system. v=P/(mg) this is irrelevant of whether your power is coming out of an electric, ice or other type of motor. A typical electric setup would probably get closer to that ideal than a typical ice in terms of achieving their maximum quoted power output. But the electric set up will never exceed it. That’s just physics no matter how much you might like EV cars.
We don’t have a misunderstanding. You made a reductive argument, got challenged, and now you’re acting like invoking “basic physics” makes the engineering irrelevant.
Run your own scenario honestly. Holding 50 kph up a 6-degree grade with six adults is a high sustained wheel-power demand. If a vehicle only has 14 kW of continuous usable wheel power, ICE or EV, it probably is not doing that.
But that does not make the powertrain irrelevant. That is exactly the point you keep missing.
In an ICE vehicle, the rated power depends on RPM, gearing, transmission losses, and whether the engine can stay in its power band. In an EV, usable output depends on the motor, controller, battery, thermal limits, gearing, and peak-vs-continuous power. Those are not interchangeable systems just because the same physics applies to both.
So no, reducing the question to horsepower does not make sense. Reducing it to torque does not make sense either. That is just car-brained ICE framing.
The powertrain design is the point. Treating ICE, EV, horses, and flywheels as interchangeable for a real vehicle-performance question is not STEM literacy.
The right answer here is to buy one of these, for both of us to go to mexico and make two freinds each, go to an appropriate hill, and give it a shot.
Sure, but there’s still a floor defined by physics. With the right setup, it could lift 5000lbs up a cliff. But it might take a year and hundreds of recharges.
Yeah. That’s the entire point. The engineering changes the experience drastically. You can’t just say watts are watts and be done with it. Its a reductive approach to do so.
Yeah but the point is given a certain amount of watts, there’s a maximum speed to lift no matter what the setup is. And it doesn’t matter whether you measure that power in Watts, horsepower or Pferdestärke - the maximum speed to lift a given weight is the same.
Do you drive an EV?
Yes, sometimes. My wife’s car is a Tesla 3. And yes the feel is very different. But the bottom line physics is still the same.
Its not “bottom line physics is the same” because the fucking aren’t. The actual construction of the fucking vehicle and its power train matters. This why everyone is dismissive of your point. You just straight up wrong here.
Go load up your wife’s Tesla 3 with 1k lbs of cinder blocks, and then find an equivalent stated HP ICE vehicle and do the same. Drive both of them up the same hill and tell me its the same thing. And if you TRULY want to experience the difference, find a manual transmission ICE equivalent.
It’s the same in terms of your maximum optimized speed. Power is power. An ice engine needs to rev high to get high power and an electric motor doesn’t (depending on how it’s wired). But if you optimize the drive train perfectly in either case, there is a maximum speed you can lift a given weight based on the power output of the engine system. v=P/(mg) this is irrelevant of whether your power is coming out of an electric, ice or other type of motor. A typical electric setup would probably get closer to that ideal than a typical ice in terms of achieving their maximum quoted power output. But the electric set up will never exceed it. That’s just physics no matter how much you might like EV cars.
Stop talking and load the car.