The thing I’m responding to says “long live Europe”. My response specifically agrees with the dunking on american tip culture, but adds that “long live Europe” ignores exploitation in the service industry in Europe. That’s not “whataboutism”, I didn’t “pick” Europeans, the thing I was responding to already “picked” Europeans by saying “long live Europe”. I suspect you have no fucking clue what “whataboutism” actually is.
whataboutism, the rhetorical practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation, by asking a different but related question, or by raising a different issue altogether. Whataboutism often serves to reduce the perceived plausibility or seriousness of the original accusation or question by suggesting that the person advancing it is hypocritical or that the responder’s misbehavior is not unique or unprecedented. Acts of whataboutism typically begin with rhetorical questions of the form “What about…?”
Examples of whataboutism
A wife accuses her husband of drinking too much. He responds, “What about you? You smoke marijuana all the time.”
A retail business owner asks an employee if she has been taking money from a tip jar. The employee responds, “What about all the charities I support?”
A father asks his daughter why she was out so late. She responds, “What about that football game?”
I’m not deflecting the accusation from the Americans and I am not American myself. I also do not raise unrelated “what about X” stuff, I am specifically pointing out to the original post that specifically says “Long Live Europe”, i.e., sets up rhetorically a distinction between guilty Americans and not guilty Europeans. Whataboutery is to say “the accusation does not stand because the accuser is also guilty”. That is NOT what I’m doing here. It is not fucking whataboutism to point out that (a) yes the accusation stands but (b) the accuser is also guilty.
So learn the fuck what you’re talking about before throwing bullshit around.
“long live Europe” ignores exploitation in the service industry in Europe. That’s not “whataboutism”.
= responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation
I’m not deflecting the accusation from the Americans
Yes you are. You didn’t dicuss the topic. You have “forum slided” into definitions of whataboutism.
Whataboutery is to say “the accusation does not stand because the accuser is also guilty”.
Because you are trying to move the goalposts away from US tipping culture towards a broader service topic where Europe is also guilty.
Let’s see if you can stay on topic.
Tips are taxed in Europe, but not in the US. That is why there is a difference. It’s not culture. It’s government policy.
You take my words out of context, you willfully ignore the meaning of words you use to accuse me, you throw random accusations again while ignoring their actual meaning (“moving the goalposts”!?), and you seem to really desperately want to fit me into some kind of weird narrative. I don’t have time for you.
US tipping culture? Bad, exploitative, should end. Support the unions.
Europeans smugly pretending they are superior when Europe also has exploitative practices? Bad, should stop. Stop telling people how your own farts smell better and support the unions.
That’s it, end of the line.
You do have a valid general point about how bad service jobs are under capitalism, but you are unable to make it relevant to the focus of discussion, which is tipping.
Well, you picked Europeans. You said “Whatabout Europeans”.
Making up shit, are we now?
Pure whataboutism
The thing I’m responding to says “long live Europe”. My response specifically agrees with the dunking on american tip culture, but adds that “long live Europe” ignores exploitation in the service industry in Europe. That’s not “whataboutism”, I didn’t “pick” Europeans, the thing I was responding to already “picked” Europeans by saying “long live Europe”. I suspect you have no fucking clue what “whataboutism” actually is.
EDIT: Brittanica:
I’m not deflecting the accusation from the Americans and I am not American myself. I also do not raise unrelated “what about X” stuff, I am specifically pointing out to the original post that specifically says “Long Live Europe”, i.e., sets up rhetorically a distinction between guilty Americans and not guilty Europeans. Whataboutery is to say “the accusation does not stand because the accuser is also guilty”. That is NOT what I’m doing here. It is not fucking whataboutism to point out that (a) yes the accusation stands but (b) the accuser is also guilty.
So learn the fuck what you’re talking about before throwing bullshit around.
= responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation
Yes you are. You didn’t dicuss the topic. You have “forum slided” into definitions of whataboutism.
Because you are trying to move the goalposts away from US tipping culture towards a broader service topic where Europe is also guilty.
Let’s see if you can stay on topic. Tips are taxed in Europe, but not in the US. That is why there is a difference. It’s not culture. It’s government policy.
You take my words out of context, you willfully ignore the meaning of words you use to accuse me, you throw random accusations again while ignoring their actual meaning (“moving the goalposts”!?), and you seem to really desperately want to fit me into some kind of weird narrative. I don’t have time for you.
US tipping culture? Bad, exploitative, should end. Support the unions. Europeans smugly pretending they are superior when Europe also has exploitative practices? Bad, should stop. Stop telling people how your own farts smell better and support the unions. That’s it, end of the line.
1/ Failed to stay on the topic of tipping.
2/ Refused to engage further when called out.
I rate this engagement 2/10.
You do have a valid general point about how bad service jobs are under capitalism, but you are unable to make it relevant to the focus of discussion, which is tipping.
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